All Blacks 2023
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2023:
I also think that Frizell is very lucky to make the squad, but he's not the only player.
Ryan says their 6s are both big, physical players but they need to get more out of them.
Hard to know for sure, but it seems Weber going off shore counted against him but it didn't count against Shannon
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2023:
I also think that Frizell is very lucky to make the squad, but he's not the only player.
Ryan says their 6s are both big, physical players but they need to get more out of them.
Hard to know for sure, but it seems Weber going off shore counted against him but it didn't count against Shannon
I think Weber has perhaps got a weakness or 2(kicking) they see? Shannon isn't only one picked going off shore.
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Love all this talk of "hard shoulders"
Who is guaranteed to start at 8 again?
Oh
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
Love all this talk of "hard shoulders"
Who is guaranteed to start at 8 again?
Oh
I think you will find in modern game you want a couple of pretty hard defenders in loosies. Ardie not a shit defender, not probably as hard on the tackle as one or two others, but caries especially post contach more than most.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@cgrant Afeaki's All Blacks profile says 124kg. Maybe he was heavier at some point, but probably not when he played that test match.
He was listed at 138 kg in a few profiles which seemed more likely than 124 kg.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@cgrant Afeaki's All Blacks profile says 124kg. Maybe he was heavier at some point, but probably not when he played that test match.
He was listed at 138 kg in a few profiles which seemed more likely than 124 kg.
It's about what he weighed at the time he played his one test match for the ABs. It doesn't matter what he weighed later.
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Thought this was an interesting read...
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From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
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From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2023:
From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
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@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2023:
From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2023:
From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
I was very surprised at Frizzels selection myself. Probably a beneficiary of Blackadders injury and the Blues repeated failures against the saders.
Out of interest, do you need an account to use that Opta website?
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@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2023:
From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2023:
From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
how good is it seeing little Jona Nareki on that list! this year he has had one of the best tackle techniques, hit hard right in the waste and get the on the ground...simples
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2023:
From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
I was very surprised at Frizzels selection myself. Probably a beneficiary of Blackadders injury and the Blues repeated failures against the saders.
Out of interest, do you need an account to use that Opta website?
That's not from the opta site but it is opta stats. I just found it via google
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2023:
From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
I was very surprised at Frizzels selection myself. Probably a beneficiary of Blackadders injury and the Blues repeated failures against the saders.
Out of interest, do you need an account to use that Opta website?
@Mattasaurus potentially he may have been 'coaches choice'?
We know Fozzie likes him, so maybe he had final say on him, regardless of the stats?
But those are the type of stats that need to be readily available, rugby is so shit at stats for punters.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
Players need consistent game time to get test rugby. Only the very very good come in and look to the manor born
Sotutu is stuck behind an ever-present who never gets hurt or tired, and plays a position that rarely makes the bench. So opportunity has been few and far between.
He's got a great skill set, and has definitely shown work rate, and I am so disappointed he's not picked.
Because he is a back masquerading as a loose forward, he doesn't hit enough rucks, lacks physicality, is noticeably skinny (106kg) for someone of his height & position, doesn't dominate collisions, only upside is attacking threat, but is simply not dominant enough on both sides of the ball to excel against better sides (non-Australian opposition).
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
Players need consistent game time to get test rugby. Only the very very good come in and look to the manor born
Sotutu is stuck behind an ever-present who never gets hurt or tired, and plays a position that rarely makes the bench. So opportunity has been few and far between.
He's got a great skill set, and has definitely shown work rate, and I am so disappointed he's not picked.
Because he is a back masquerading as a loose forward, he doesn't hit enough rucks, lacks physicality, is noticeably skinny (106kg) for someone of his height & position, doesn't dominate collisions, only upside is attacking threat, but is simply not dominant enough on both sides of the ball to excel against better sides (non-Australian opposition).
Are you talking about Savea or Sotutu?
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@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2023:
From the above article
"From 13 games Jacobson has 17 dominant tackles (numbers courtesy of Opta Sports), one ahead of Scott Barrett. Sotutu isn’t in the top 10.The Blues No 8 is an outstanding carrier, but Jacobson’s inclusion are clear signals that the All Blacks want players who can smash people. "
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
I decided to answer my own question. Where is Shannon?
Well I found the data for almost the full regular season.. it doesn't include the final round robin match
Shannon 10 games (684mins) 3 dominant tackles
That's a per 80minute stat of 0.35
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
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Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
I decided to answer my own question. Where is Shannon?
Well I found the data for almost the full regular season.. it doesn't include the final round robin match
Shannon 10 games (684mins) 3 dominant tackles
That's a per 80minute stat of 0.35
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
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@Duluth i'd love for a jurno to actually just ask that of the fozzie...stats say he's shit....why select him?
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth i'd love for a jurno to actually just ask that of the fozzie...stats say he's shit....why select him?
And I would hope Fozzie (and Jase Ryan) would say, we actually watch ruby and don't just read stats!! I really wonder at people who continually use stats, do we just not watch games, get some boffins to give us stats and we will pick our teams from that!! I prefer the reasoning that Jason Ryan uses, they picked forwards to play game they want!
And I admit to being pretty keen on how Ryan seems to look at game! -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth i'd love for a jurno to actually just ask that of the fozzie...stats say he's shit....why select him?
And I would hope Fozzie (and Jase Ryan) would say, we actually watch ruby and don't just read stats!! I really wonder at people who continually use stats, do we just not watch games, get some boffins to give us stats and we will pick our teams from that!! I prefer the reasoning that Jason Ryan uses, they picked forwards to play game they want!
And I admit to being pretty keen on how Ryan seems to look at game!@Dan54 to be fair, I expect they watch the exact same games we do, but they have access to the additional stats to assist in their decision making.
I would expect you, like me with decades of watching various levels of rugby have a pretty keen eye for what is and what isnt good, so something they have over is, is in fact access to those stats and the time to re-watch, using stats to pick thier players and determine plans for players/opposition.
I expect the software they use now is much more advanced now than it was c 2019 when I did my L2 coaching and alot is designed around stats.
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Alright, listen up, you young whippersnappers! It's time for a lesson in rugby knowledge! When it comes to rugby selections, nobody, should dare question the decisions made by the experts! These selectors know the game inside out, and they've earned their positions of authority. So, keep your uninformed opinions to yourselves!!!
Now, let's talk about those journalists! Some of 'em may use stats to support the selectors' choices, and that's fine! But let me tell you, it's absolutely NOT okay for some random forum poster to use the same stats to question the journalist's position. Who do they think they are?! Only the journalists have the right to manipulate stats to fit their narrative, not some armchair analyst!
So, here's the deal, kiddos. Sit back, shut your traps, and let the experts and their media cronies dictate the rugby narrative. They know best, and you lot need to learn some respect! Don't you dare think you're on the same level as these rugby pundits, because you're not!!!
Now, take a deep breath and try to keep up with the wisdom I'm sharing. I know it may be a struggle for you, but that's just the way it is. So, next time you're tempted to question the rugby selections or challenge the pundits, just remember your place, and don't you dare forget it!!!
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth i'd love for a jurno to actually just ask that of the fozzie...stats say he's shit....why select him?
And I would hope Fozzie (and Jase Ryan) would say, we actually watch ruby and don't just read stats!! I really wonder at people who continually use stats, do we just not watch games, get some boffins to give us stats and we will pick our teams from that!! I prefer the reasoning that Jason Ryan uses, they picked forwards to play game they want!
And I admit to being pretty keen on how Ryan seems to look at game!@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
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@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
@Kiwiwomble
Yep doesn't make any difference the eye and stats seem to paint the same picture of why. -
@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Yup. The stats reinforce exactly what has been said in Highlanders threads throughout the year. Plenty of people noticed the drop off in Shannons contact work
Paul Cully used these stats to explain why Sotutu was (correctly) dropped, but seemed to omit stats for a player he's a been a big promotor of.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Yup. The stats reinforce exactly what has been said in Highlanders threads throughout the year. Plenty of people noticed the drop off in Shannons contact work
Paul Cully used these stats to explain why Sotutu was (correctly) dropped, but seemed to omit stats for a player he's a been a big promotor of.
@Duluth and i'll admit i was a frizell fan, his first season for the landers was epic, was it his debut he score three tries against the blues?...but even i gave up thinking he should be an BA ages ago....and the last couple of seasons even his Highlander performances have fallen back in line with the other loosies we have if not less than (see renton, withy)...and thats not even getting into his off field stuff!
