All Blacks 2023
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Poor old Beaudy - two time World Player of the Year playing first five...... living in the outhouse.
I think we're waaay harsh on our first fives.
If Handre Pollard was one of ours, we'd think he was complete rubbish.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Poor old Beaudy - two time World Player of the Year playing first five...... living in the outhouse.
I think we're waaay harsh on our first fives.
If Handre Pollard was one of ours, we'd think he was complete rubbish.
most recently in 2017...is he any better now that 6 years ago...is he even that good now?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Poor old Beaudy - two time World Player of the Year playing first five...... living in the outhouse.
I think we're waaay harsh on our first fives.
If Handre Pollard was one of ours, we'd think he was complete rubbish.
most recently in 2017...is he any better now that 6 years ago...is he even that good now?
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Poor old Beaudy - two time World Player of the Year playing first five...... living in the outhouse.
I think we're waaay harsh on our first fives.
If Handre Pollard was one of ours, we'd think he was complete rubbish.
most recently in 2017...is he any better now that 6 years ago...is he even that good now?
Not really the point I'm making.
I'm pretty sure Danny Boy and Cruden aren't world class these days either.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Poor old Beaudy - two time World Player of the Year playing first five...... living in the outhouse.
I think we're waaay harsh on our first fives.
If Handre Pollard was one of ours, we'd think he was complete rubbish.
most recently in 2017...is he any better now that 6 years ago...is he even that good now?
Not really the point I'm making.
I'm pretty sure Danny Boy and Cruden aren't world class these days either.
@Chris-B but we're not relying on them to win us another world cup
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@Chris-B but we're not relying on them to win us another world cup
@Kiwiwomble We were relying on Danny in 2015, but most people would rather have had Cruden playing first five if he wasn't broken - especially as Dan (and Richie McCaw) phoned it in for yet another Super season under Toddy Blackadder.
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy for the creaking Jonny Sexton who'd just had his arse handed to him in a hat in Japan?
We can win the RWC with our first fives - especially Richie. And if we can't, how come our other AB laden Super teams can't ever seem to stop him at the business end of Super rugby?
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@Kiwiwomble We were relying on Danny in 2015, but most people would rather have had Cruden playing first five if he wasn't broken - especially as Dan (and Richie McCaw) phoned it in for yet another Super season under Toddy Blackadder.
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy for the creaking Jonny Sexton who'd just had his arse handed to him in a hat in Japan?
We can win the RWC with our first fives - especially Richie. And if we can't, how come our other AB laden Super teams can't ever seem to stop him at the business end of Super rugby?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble We were relying on Danny in 2015, but most people would rather have had Cruden playing first five if he wasn't broken - especially as Dan (and Richie McCaw) phoned it in for yet another Super season under Toddy Blackadder.
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy for the creaking Jonny Sexton who'd just had his arse handed to him in a hat in Japan?
We can win the RWC with our first fives - especially Richie. And if we can't, how come our other AB laden Super teams can't ever seem to stop him at the business end of Super rugby?
Man I heard a few idiots calling for Richie to be canned early in 2015 (that;s what forums are for I think), but have to admit didn't know anyone wanting same for DC.
But with RMo, who I think is obviously our 10 in WC, and is best,of out lot at this stage, though perhaps like Kiwi not convinced that 10 is a strong position for us at test level. Certainly none of the 3 we got have been to convincing at that level last few years. -
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble We were relying on Danny in 2015, but most people would rather have had Cruden playing first five if he wasn't broken - especially as Dan (and Richie McCaw) phoned it in for yet another Super season under Toddy Blackadder.
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy for the creaking Jonny Sexton who'd just had his arse handed to him in a hat in Japan?
We can win the RWC with our first fives - especially Richie. And if we can't, how come our other AB laden Super teams can't ever seem to stop him at the business end of Super rugby?
Man I heard a few idiots calling for Richie to be canned early in 2015 (that;s what forums are for I think), but have to admit didn't know anyone wanting same for DC.
But with RMo, who I think is obviously our 10 in WC, and is best,of out lot at this stage, though perhaps like Kiwi not convinced that 10 is a strong position for us at test level. Certainly none of the 3 we got have been to convincing at that level last few years.@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
but have to admit didn't know anyone wanting same for DC.
I think @Chris-B dreamt that or has projected his own personal opinion onto everyone else.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy
I'd have traded them for AC. The stupid Welsh being so poor in 2016 allowing BB to star fucked our 2019 campaign.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble We were relying on Danny in 2015, but most people would rather have had Cruden playing first five if he wasn't broken - especially as Dan (and Richie McCaw) phoned it in for yet another Super season under Toddy Blackadder.
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy for the creaking Jonny Sexton who'd just had his arse handed to him in a hat in Japan?
We can win the RWC with our first fives - especially Richie. And if we can't, how come our other AB laden Super teams can't ever seem to stop him at the business end of Super rugby?
Man I heard a few idiots calling for Richie to be canned early in 2015 (that;s what forums are for I think), but have to admit didn't know anyone wanting same for DC.
But with RMo, who I think is obviously our 10 in WC, and is best,of out lot at this stage, though perhaps like Kiwi not convinced that 10 is a strong position for us at test level. Certainly none of the 3 we got have been to convincing at that level last few years.@Dan54 were many calling for both Richie and DC to be left behind, particularly in the media, Rattue was leading the charge and plenty on talk back too.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
but have to admit didn't know anyone wanting same for DC.
I think @Chris-B dreamt that or has projected his own personal opinion onto everyone else.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy
I'd have traded them for AC. The stupid Welsh being so poor in 2016 allowing BB to star fucked our 2019 campaign.
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Poor old Beaudy - two time World Player of the Year playing first five...... living in the outhouse.
I think we're waaay harsh on our first fives.
If Handre Pollard was one of ours, we'd think he was complete rubbish.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Poor old Beaudy - two time World Player of the Year playing first five...... living in the outhouse.
I think we're waaay harsh on our first fives.
If Handre Pollard was one of ours, we'd think he was complete rubbish.
Living in the outhouse now Chris.
This isn't 2016.Personally hope the criticism he has been getting lights a fire under him.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
but have to admit didn't know anyone wanting same for DC.
I think @Chris-B dreamt that or has projected his own personal opinion onto everyone else.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy
I'd have traded them for AC. The stupid Welsh being so poor in 2016 allowing BB to star fucked our 2019 campaign.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
but have to admit didn't know anyone wanting same for DC.
I think @Chris-B dreamt that or has projected his own personal opinion onto everyone else.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
Four years ago, who would have traded Richie or Beaudy
I'd have traded them for AC. The stupid Welsh being so poor in 2016 allowing BB to star fucked our 2019 campaign.
I remember plenty of comments along the lines of Carters best being behind him. His tournament performance caused some wilful amnesia
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Personal theory: Beauden plays his best rugby when he's just having FUN.
If he's got a smile on his face, like he's just playing a goddamn GAME... he'll do a chip kick, perfectly placed, collect it, score. Easy-peasy lemon-japanesey-squeezy.
If he's under pressure, being asked to play a certain way... like it's a fucking JOB or some bullshit... not so much.
In the modern game - international level, especially World-Cup... maybe that works(worked) if he's the fresh new kid. Aside: Fuck I loved the 2015 Final. Champagne at Twickenham... soooo much fucking champagne. Anyway.... maybe doesn't work so much when he has had years of coaching. -
Probably better getting the full set of them.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial yes, we either need a new game plan that plays to our world class talent...or they need to be dropped for people that can just do the game plan we currently have...we need to pick a lane and stop trying to have both
100 % yes.
You sort of think the coaching staff in charge of developing a winning AB team would have come to this conclusion a few years ago.
As a coach you sit down before taking something on and devise how you want to play, what talent you have and how it fits in to what you perceive as a winning game plan.
More so if you are planning 4 years in advance to get to a WC with a high chance of winning that WC as there are more variables in a 4 year cycle.@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial yes, we either need a new game plan that plays to our world class talent...or they need to be dropped for people that can just do the game plan we currently have...we need to pick a lane and stop trying to have both
100 % yes.
You sort of think the coaching staff in charge of developing a winning AB team would have come to this conclusion a few years ago.
As a coach you sit down before taking something on and devise how you want to play, what talent you have and how it fits in to what you perceive as a winning game plan.
More so if you are planning 4 years in advance to get to a WC with a high chance of winning that WC as there are more variables in a 4 year cycle.If it were that simple, you'd be right. But I'm not sure it is.
It's based on the assumption that NZ has, and will always have, a superior talent pool, all the world-class players they'll ever need for whatever game-plan is chosen, that only the coaching staff matter and winning or losing is down to them and their choice of game-plan and players alone.
In the real world, your talent pool is limited and other countries often have better resources, players and infrastructure. If you're good or lucky, the compromises you invariably have to make work out OK - most of the time.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
That's why I don't discount the idea of Jordie playing fullback. He's like a latter-day Don Clarke - and we don't have anyone else like him - with the height and size to really command the air and a big and accurate boot
Jordie's boot from the back is simply not accurate. For whatever reason it just isn't. He has a big boot but from fullback it's never been accurate.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
That's why I don't discount the idea of Jordie playing fullback. He's like a latter-day Don Clarke - and we don't have anyone else like him - with the height and size to really command the air and a big and accurate boot
Jordie's boot from the back is simply not accurate. For whatever reason it just isn't. He has a big boot but from fullback it's never been accurate.
He has a big boot, but as you say, I don't think he's an outstanding kicker. He was great at 15 in '21 but faded the following year.
But he's a good solid, reliable player - if not spectacular - which is why I'd want him in the starting XV.
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@Dan54 were many calling for both Richie and DC to be left behind, particularly in the media, Rattue was leading the charge and plenty on talk back too.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 were many calling for both Richie and DC to be left behind, particularly in the media, Rattue was leading the charge and plenty on talk back too.
Yep well I was living in Aus , but never read Rattue anyway. I did remember a few forum piston wristed gibbons wanting Richie out, especially first half of Super rugby.
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The dozy President Of The United States just tried to trash talk the All Blacks.
https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1646234858187010048?t=t1G4nS-WMhL9cMwjW_3H4Q&s=19
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial yes, we either need a new game plan that plays to our world class talent...or they need to be dropped for people that can just do the game plan we currently have...we need to pick a lane and stop trying to have both
100 % yes.
You sort of think the coaching staff in charge of developing a winning AB team would have come to this conclusion a few years ago.
As a coach you sit down before taking something on and devise how you want to play, what talent you have and how it fits in to what you perceive as a winning game plan.
More so if you are planning 4 years in advance to get to a WC with a high chance of winning that WC as there are more variables in a 4 year cycle.If it were that simple, you'd be right. But I'm not sure it is.
It's based on the assumption that NZ has, and will always have, a superior talent pool, all the world-class players they'll ever need for whatever game-plan is chosen, that only the coaching staff matter and winning or losing is down to them and their choice of game-plan and players alone.
In the real world, your talent pool is limited and other countries often have better resources, players and infrastructure. If you're good or lucky, the compromises you invariably have to make work out OK - most of the time.
thats not what i meant, i dont think that player B is as good as Player A in a straight up comparison, i mean that Player B might work better with the other players or the game plan that the coaches want to play, greater than the sum of their parts. so definitely not claiming we have an unlimited pool or world class players....we just might need to try using a couple of not quite world class....on paper
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial yes, we either need a new game plan that plays to our world class talent...or they need to be dropped for people that can just do the game plan we currently have...we need to pick a lane and stop trying to have both
100 % yes.
You sort of think the coaching staff in charge of developing a winning AB team would have come to this conclusion a few years ago.
As a coach you sit down before taking something on and devise how you want to play, what talent you have and how it fits in to what you perceive as a winning game plan.
More so if you are planning 4 years in advance to get to a WC with a high chance of winning that WC as there are more variables in a 4 year cycle.If it were that simple, you'd be right. But I'm not sure it is.
It's based on the assumption that NZ has, and will always have, a superior talent pool, all the world-class players they'll ever need for whatever game-plan is chosen, that only the coaching staff matter and winning or losing is down to them and their choice of game-plan and players alone.
In the real world, your talent pool is limited and other countries often have better resources, players and infrastructure. If you're good or lucky, the compromises you invariably have to make work out OK - most of the time.
thats not what i meant, i dont think that player B is as good as Player A in a straight up comparison, i mean that Player B might work better with the other players or the game plan that the coaches want to play, greater than the sum of their parts. so definitely not claiming we have an unlimited pool or world class players....we just might need to try using a couple of not quite world class....on paper
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial yes, we either need a new game plan that plays to our world class talent...or they need to be dropped for people that can just do the game plan we currently have...we need to pick a lane and stop trying to have both
100 % yes.
You sort of think the coaching staff in charge of developing a winning AB team would have come to this conclusion a few years ago.
As a coach you sit down before taking something on and devise how you want to play, what talent you have and how it fits in to what you perceive as a winning game plan.
More so if you are planning 4 years in advance to get to a WC with a high chance of winning that WC as there are more variables in a 4 year cycle.If it were that simple, you'd be right. But I'm not sure it is.
It's based on the assumption that NZ has, and will always have, a superior talent pool, all the world-class players they'll ever need for whatever game-plan is chosen, that only the coaching staff matter and winning or losing is down to them and their choice of game-plan and players alone.
In the real world, your talent pool is limited and other countries often have better resources, players and infrastructure. If you're good or lucky, the compromises you invariably have to make work out OK - most of the time.
thats not what i meant, i dont think that player B is as good as Player A in a straight up comparison, i mean that Player B might work better with the other players or the game plan that the coaches want to play, greater than the sum of their parts. so definitely not claiming we have an unlimited pool or world class players....we just might need to try using a couple of not quite world class....on paper
That is right,I am sure as most coaches do they use Depth charts to understand what tier 2 /3 looks like wether they can sustain the game plan they want to play, and tweak the gameplay according to what the overall depth is.
In my Job we do it right down to u/16 level to identify player's coming though which fit how we play to be successful as we can for the next cycle of 4 or 5 years.I would think an advanced set up like the AB's are all over this and are doing it.
But maybe they are confused about the structure v the player depth to sustain their game plan.
