All Blacks 2023

Dan54

@Steve yep not saying that's not absolutely correct, all I suggesting is Narawa is at this stage has been probably the best of that type of winger around, and will be happy to see Jordan come back in form etc. I was only using it as a what we can see hear and now scenario.

Steve

@Steve

Bags of factor in that backline.

Jordie's boot for long place kicks.

Two lumps in midfield who can both offload and a back 3 who are like shite off a hot shovel.

nostrildamus

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

Smith

DMAC

Rieko

Jordie

Aumua

Stevenson/Narawa

Jordan

Imagine we had 10 or 15 tests left to get that to gel.

It is really only 12-13 combination that needs much time to gel though, I'm sure at 14 either will fit in and make impact quickly. In saying that, has DMac played at 10 with Smith at 9? Probably off the bench?

Crucial

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

Isn't that the thing against Jordan at a RWC though? The 'cheat code' opportunities in the big games are few and far.
What you do see more off at the highest levels is wingers dotting down acrobatically in the corner or having the strength to prevent being knocked into touch.
Do you have a safety fullback and a roaming wing? That suits him but stifles BB. If BB is free to chime in then WJ becomes a safety/second fullback but are there better options in that role (eg Stevenson who has a mix of step, power, corner scoring, boot and safety)
Jordan has freakish qualities for sure. I'm not convinced that we should be banking on those opportunities happening though.
I'm usually a risk taker and happy to see players chance their hand if they have skills knowing that it won't always produce but you do need to have them fit in to a balanced team to start.
BB is the one at risk in my team. He might be able to regain form but I still can't fit him into a well balanced side.

BB is one of my favourite players of all time. It kills me to dig him out.

But we seen this movie in 2019 and it didn't have a good ending.

The dual playmakers. The vanilla ALB Goodhue midfield. The unbalanced backrow.

Allblack fullbacks need to be scoring tries.

Beaudy is gun shy.

He is playing tag rugby out there these days and kicking an inordinate amount of good pill away.

Even if all of that stops though you either have to create the balance around him or see if he is best fit for the 15 role that you need.
Don't forget that his best international play came as a late game impact to break someone from nothing or consolidate an advantage won over time. Not as a starting 15.
To me in verges on the mistakes of trying to fit Lomu, Wilson, Cullen and Umaga into one side. It was just that Cullen wasn't a 13 it was that the roles weren't balanced.

Steve

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:

Isn't that the thing against Jordan at a RWC though? The 'cheat code' opportunities in the big games are few and far.

At RWC with a player like Jordan, you only need a slight opportunity though. Jordan does seem to have defensive concerns but overall I prefer Stevenson and Jordan over BB now. I'm not sure that defensively BB has much if any advantage over them and in terms of evasiveness and kicking they are ahead.

Their upside surely outweighs their perceived downside at this stage relative to Beaudys.

Pepe

This post is deleted!

Steve

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

Smith

DMAC

Rieko

Jordie

Aumua

Stevenson/Narawa

Jordan

Imagine we had 10 or 15 tests left to get that to gel.

It is really only 12-13 combination that needs much time to gel though, I'm sure at 14 either will fit in and make impact quickly. In saying that, has DMac played at 10 with Smith at 9? Probably off the bench?

Yeah was the centres I had in mind regarding the gelling.

I don't think we win it with the status quo but I think we could if we try something and make a few tough calls.

Beaudy scored 1 try last year? Where the ball nutmegged an Irish defender on the try line and he jumped on it....

That's it...from an Allblack fullback in a calendar year. That aint gonna cut the mustard folks.

Steve

I think Fozzies hand will be forced anyway like it has been historically......

5 games to go. 2 against Australia, 2 against the Boks and 1 against Argentina.

There are no easybeats there. There will be casualties.

Unite

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

I think Fozzies hand will be forced anyway like it has been historically......

5 games to go. 2 against Australia, 2 against the Boks and 1 against Argentina.

There are no easybeats there. There will be casualties.

There is only 1 vs the Boks isn’t there?

Edit: sorry forgot about the game in the UK.

Steve

@Unite said in All Blacks 2023:

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

I think Fozzies hand will be forced anyway like it has been historically......

5 games to go. 2 against Australia, 2 against the Boks and 1 against Argentina.

There are no easybeats there. There will be casualties.

There is only 1 vs the Boks isn’t there?

Edit: sorry forgot about the game in the UK.

I don't think what we have seen so far from the AB's under Foster is going to win the cup....

He knows he isn't getting reappointed.

Surely he has to roll the dice on a few calls no?

Kirwan

When was the last time Will Jordan played?

Touching wood, but isn't his future less than clear?

Dan54

@Steve much as that try against Ireland was absolutely brilliant, probably the one game that shouldn't be used to promote Wii as an AB. I was at game and genuinley was so disappointed that the 12 seconds involved in that try was virtually I thought about all he seemed interested in during the 80 minutes of the game. I was watching him not seem to attempt to take high balls etc kicked hiw way on wing. I actually thought he must of been injured, until he had be standing yelling as he scored that try. He is a much better player than he showed in that test, apart from that 12 seconds etc.

Dan54

@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:

When was the last time Will Jordan played?

Touching wood, but isn't his future less than clear?

Last year , why I made my comment on Narawa, Will needs to be back on field to get some rugby under his belt, show selectors he has still got it after long lay off.

Dan54

@Unite said in All Blacks 2023:

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

I think Fozzies hand will be forced anyway like it has been historically......

5 games to go. 2 against Australia, 2 against the Boks and 1 against Argentina.

There are no easybeats there. There will be casualties.

There is only 1 vs the Boks isn’t there?

Edit: sorry forgot about the game in the UK.

No 2 against Boks, playing a warm up for WC against them at Twickenham.

No Quarter

I'm with @Steve on Jordan, if he's fit he's straight back into my starting 15. Players like him win tight tests, he's absolutely critical to our chances.

This is the backline I'm wanting right now:

Smith
DMac
Clarke
Jordie
Rieko
Jordan
Sullivan

That's a backline that could take crappy possession and score points anyway. DMac, Jordie and Sullivan also gives us kicking options across the park.

We really need to shelve some of our experience and throw caution to the wind this year as we're a fair way off top sides, so anything conservative will almost certainly see an early exit.

Kiwiwomble

@No-Quarter i REALLY want to see Jordan at 15....but i dont hate that selection, a couple of form, a couple on being established...id like to see it fire

Chester Draws

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

@Unite said in All Blacks 2023:

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

I think Fozzies hand will be forced anyway like it has been historically......

5 games to go. 2 against Australia, 2 against the Boks and 1 against Argentina.

There are no easybeats there. There will be casualties.

There is only 1 vs the Boks isn’t there?

Edit: sorry forgot about the game in the UK.

I don't think what we have seen so far from the AB's under Foster is going to win the cup....

He knows he isn't getting reappointed.

Surely he has to roll the dice on a few calls no?

Foster was way more under the gun in South Africa last year. What did he do? He played exactly the same team as before, with exactly the same game plan.

As much as it pains me, Foster isn't going to take the slightest risk. He will go in with the 2022 side, unless forced by injury to change.

He was talking recently about how he thought Beauden Barrett might regain his form, as if returning him to #10. Really? He thinks that a man who hasn't done much for years is suddenly going to return to what he was five years ago?

Machpants

@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2023:

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

@Unite said in All Blacks 2023:

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

I think Fozzies hand will be forced anyway like it has been historically......

5 games to go. 2 against Australia, 2 against the Boks and 1 against Argentina.

There are no easybeats there. There will be casualties.

There is only 1 vs the Boks isn’t there?

Edit: sorry forgot about the game in the UK.

I don't think what we have seen so far from the AB's under Foster is going to win the cup....

He knows he isn't getting reappointed.

Surely he has to roll the dice on a few calls no?

Foster was way more under the gun in South Africa last year. What did he do? He played exactly the same team as before, with exactly the same game plan.

As much as it pains me, Foster isn't going to take the slightest risk. He will go in with the 2022 side, unless forced by injury to change.

He was talking recently about how he thought Beauden Barrett might regain his form, as if returning him to #10. Really? He thinks that a man who hasn't done much for years is suddenly going to return to what he was five years ago?

Foster's entire reign has been the definition of blinkered and stubborn. So he will stick with the tried and (not actually) true

Victor Meldrew

@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2023:

Foster was way more under the gun in South Africa last year. What did he do?

He won?

As much as it pains me, Foster isn't going to take the slightest risk. He will go in with the 2022 side, unless forced by injury to change.

Going with the most settled side possible is pretty much what every successful AB coach has done thru the years - particularly RWC-winning ones. Whether he has built the optimum settled side is open to debate...

He was talking recently about how he thought Beauden Barrett might regain his form, as if returning him to #10. Really? He thinks that a man who hasn't done much for years is suddenly going to return to what he was five years ago?

I recall pretty much the same thing being said about Carter pre-RWC2015. Was Hansen wrong to pick him?

Victor Meldrew

@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:

I don't think what we have seen so far from the AB's under Foster is going to win the cup....

The signs are def. there they could way better that we think. The problem is they fade away at the wrong time. E.g. the forwards were utter shite in the last quarter against England on the EOYT - appalling.

Surely he has to roll the dice on a few calls no?

The problem is he's rolled the dice and it hasn't come off either thru injury (QT) or picking players who look great at SR level but shit at Test level (take your pick but start with George Bridge). And he really doesn't have the games to try new things.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2023