RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks
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We've got one last throw of the dice.
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@voodoo said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
It’s pretty wild how dependent we have become on Frizell, Scott B and Jordie B, 3 of the dumbest blokes playing rugby
Are you picking on Frizell for his off field antics ?
The Barrett reference is pretty self explanatory though !
@MN5 said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@voodoo said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
It’s pretty wild how dependent we have become on Frizell, Scott B and Jordie B, 3 of the dumbest blokes playing rugby
Are you picking on Frizell for his off field antics ?
The Barrett reference is pretty self explanatory though !
I could be being unfair to on-field Frizz to be fair
Still - 3 blokes who know one way and that’s straight up the guts. Shows that at the end of the day, rugby often doesn’t have to be that complicated.
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No team plays like the ABs (and that is not a compliment). It is the height of arrogance to think that you have achieved some new paradigm in rugby while the rest of the best play what I call the ‘European’ way….and win
@pjay no team used to play like ABs either, but back in 2015, the players available were better and could execute the game plan. There wasn’t a team around that was close to them.
Trouble is, you have to cut your cloth accordingly. First Hansen, then Foster have been trying to do the same thing with a good, but not great, crop of players. Sometimes they are able to execute to the same standard, but because they lack the quality, discipline and focus of that 2015 crop, they drop the ball more often. The basics are just not executed as well.
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It’s too late for this team to change, the die has been set. We may fluke a win over a top team, but we go no further then the semis.
We lack balance in the loosies (with or without Cane). Ditto the backs… accentuated when we play ridiculous aerial tactics.
Our props in particular are nowhere near world class.
All set piece is currently a weakness for us. This is majorly concerning.
Which leads on to… we are lacking in game fundamentals. Tactics that support territorial advantage, building phases of pressure etc. It appeared we had moved on, but alas we’re still playing Fosterball.
Relying on miracle plays won’t win a World Cup.
How much lasting damage has been inflicted upon the ABs over the last 4-6 years under a declining Hansen and a grossly under qualified Foster. Probably a nice guy. Nice guys finish last.
We were out-coached/out-tacticed again today.
I’m now nervous about Italy.
Best thing that could happen is that the team develops a siege mentality, like they did when they saved Foster’s skin in SA, backs to the wall, and galvanise.
I hope I am wrong about most of this (but I suspect not).
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@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Going forward - discipline and handling needs to be so much better. Every time NZ looked like they were stretching France, they either dropped the ball or got isolated and pinged. You can’t let teams like France, Ireland and SA have 12 penalties to play with.
France were blowing hard at times. NZ let them off the hook with poor execution and lack of discipline. Both are fixable.
JB and SF returning will be a big boost. BBBR returning and starting with SB will add some ballast and power.
BB has to be on borrowed time now. Wouldn’t surprise me if DM gets a run at FB in Italy test.
CR to take his chance and force himself onto the bench by QF.
If TL returns by end of the pool, that’s quite a lot of changes/improvements from the 23 seen tonight.
Impressive use of initials.
But stop giving me hope.
It may be a stages of grief thing but my mindset is changing.
My expectation has gone and I'm now just going to watch the footy and enjoy the event. I'll still watch with hope, but no expectation.
Is this what normal fans feel like?
@booboo Boks won a World Cup after losing 23-13 in first game to NZ in 2019.
England made the final in 2007 after losing 36-0 to the Boks in the pool.
NZ lost. Challenge now for the coaches is to build up to Italy and win, then build up to QF. If they are 5% better than they were tonight (they weren’t far off), they have a decent chance.
Foster has nothing to lose now. Throw the dice man. Give DM a run at FB. Along with JB, they have 2 siege gun boots. What exactly would the ABs lose dropping BB for DM? I know they say form is temporary, class is permanent, but world cups rarely provide fairytale endings.
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@MN5 said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@voodoo said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
It’s pretty wild how dependent we have become on Frizell, Scott B and Jordie B, 3 of the dumbest blokes playing rugby
Are you picking on Frizell for his off field antics ?
The Barrett reference is pretty self explanatory though !
I could be being unfair to on-field Frizz to be fair
Still - 3 blokes who know one way and that’s straight up the guts. Shows that at the end of the day, rugby often doesn’t have to be that complicated.
@voodoo said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@MN5 said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@voodoo said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
It’s pretty wild how dependent we have become on Frizell, Scott B and Jordie B, 3 of the dumbest blokes playing rugby
Are you picking on Frizell for his off field antics ?
The Barrett reference is pretty self explanatory though !
I could be being unfair to on-field Frizz to be fair
Still - 3 blokes who know one way and that’s straight up the guts. Shows that at the end of the day, rugby often doesn’t have to be that complicated.
I think the wankfest over Frizzel and Blackadder sums up ABs rugby at the moment.
Massive hope and blind faith in two guys who have really done fuck all at the highest level.
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@booboo Boks won a World Cup after losing 23-13 in first game to NZ in 2019.
England made the final in 2007 after losing 36-0 to the Boks in the pool.
NZ lost. Challenge now for the coaches is to build up to Italy and win, then build up to QF. If they are 5% better than they were tonight (they weren’t far off), they have a decent chance.
Foster has nothing to lose now. Throw the dice man. Give DM a run at FB. Along with JB, they have 2 siege gun boots. What exactly would the ABs lose dropping BB for DM? I know they say form is temporary, class is permanent, but world cups rarely provide fairytale endings.
@stodders problem is I dont think we have the composure and smarts to win this thing.
I also dont think Foster has it in him to adjust things, even though from the outside, they seem like simple changes
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@voodoo said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@MN5 said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@voodoo said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
It’s pretty wild how dependent we have become on Frizell, Scott B and Jordie B, 3 of the dumbest blokes playing rugby
Are you picking on Frizell for his off field antics ?
The Barrett reference is pretty self explanatory though !
I could be being unfair to on-field Frizz to be fair
Still - 3 blokes who know one way and that’s straight up the guts. Shows that at the end of the day, rugby often doesn’t have to be that complicated.
I think the wankfest over Frizzel and Blackadder sums up ABs rugby at the moment.
Massive hope and blind faith in two guys who have really done fuck all at the highest level.
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@MN5 Frizell has shown he can do his job. The AB back row needs someone who runs hard and moves bodies. He does that.
Blackadder - I think he’s a good guy to have on the bench.
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No team plays like the ABs (and that is not a compliment). It is the height of arrogance to think that you have achieved some new paradigm in rugby while the rest of the best play what I call the ‘European’ way….and win
@pjay said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
No team plays like the ABs (and that is not a compliment). It is the height of arrogance to think that you have achieved some new paradigm in rugby while the rest of the best play what I call the ‘European’ way….and win
Who's claiming to have achieved "some new paradigm in rugby"?
I haven't seen any arrogance whatsoever. Just incompetence.
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@stodders problem is I dont think we have the composure and smarts to win this thing.
I also dont think Foster has it in him to adjust things, even though from the outside, they seem like simple changes
@taniwharugby said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@stodders problem is I dont think we have the composure and smarts to win this thing.
I also dont think Foster has it in him to adjust things, even though from the outside, they seem like simple changes
Well said that man. He has shown nothing of the learnings he always talks about.
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The harsh reality (and something to bear in mind when Razor takes over) is that this is the best crop of players we’ve got, for the most part. There isn’t a 23 sitting back home who should’ve been on the plane.
I realise that the 2024 squad will look vastly different anyway, but it’s going to take every inch of SR’s coaching prowess to make that team competitive.
But for now, we’re grinning and bearing.
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@antipodean said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Quick report from your local correspondent here in fucking hot Paris:
Backroom full of donkeys. Vaai, predictability, the worst of them. Tight five carried them. In as much as you can call that display "carried".
De Groot will want to forget that game in a hurry. ALB was MIA after that beautiful pop pass to Rieko.
Will Jordan is obviously a very dimwitted slow learner. Jump to contest you fuckwomble.Beaudy was bloody good until the final quarter. As was Mounga.
The blame for you Foster haters needs to be apportioned to the rest of the coaching staff who have had plenty of time to address the obvious issues. This was a collective display of incompetence.
The buck stops at the head coach. And with Ryan and Schmidt we have had some games which forwards really muscled up and attack was good versus decent opposition. Prior to them, none. So yes Ryan and Schmidt are part of the selectors and coaching team, but there has been improvement with them on board. Foster had the final say, and the midfield bomb/millions of sorry kicks/play in your own 22 has been the default under the entire foster tenure. And that leads to our losses
Ahh yes, the predictable lament that 'when we're good it's the assistants, when we're bad it's the head coach'. Those with a few more functioning synapses might start to look at the quality of player available and reflect on that body of evidence.
IMO you have to be a dimwit to believe that the problem is just the head coach.
Nope, just recognising that in the end the head coach makes the decisions, and if he ignores his assistants, then they cannot be held accountable.
We have plenty of evidence that Schmidt is a good coach, and that Ryan is a great forwards coach. If they have turned to rubbish within one year, then it is one man that has done that.
When things were going dreadfully, Foster had no choice but to allow them to make changes. Once things were going well, we saw him revert to his favourite players and plays.
By the end of next year the whining about not having decent players will be gone. It will take the change of one man in the set-up. (I'm not even particularly pro-Robertson, I think that would happen if he were to resign and say Jamie Joseph got the job.)
@Chester-Draws said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Quick report from your local correspondent here in fucking hot Paris:
Backroom full of donkeys. Vaai, predictability, the worst of them. Tight five carried them. In as much as you can call that display "carried".
De Groot will want to forget that game in a hurry. ALB was MIA after that beautiful pop pass to Rieko.
Will Jordan is obviously a very dimwitted slow learner. Jump to contest you fuckwomble.Beaudy was bloody good until the final quarter. As was Mounga.
The blame for you Foster haters needs to be apportioned to the rest of the coaching staff who have had plenty of time to address the obvious issues. This was a collective display of incompetence.
The buck stops at the head coach. And with Ryan and Schmidt we have had some games which forwards really muscled up and attack was good versus decent opposition. Prior to them, none. So yes Ryan and Schmidt are part of the selectors and coaching team, but there has been improvement with them on board. Foster had the final say, and the midfield bomb/millions of sorry kicks/play in your own 22 has been the default under the entire foster tenure. And that leads to our losses
Ahh yes, the predictable lament that 'when we're good it's the assistants, when we're bad it's the head coach'. Those with a few more functioning synapses might start to look at the quality of player available and reflect on that body of evidence.
IMO you have to be a dimwit to believe that the problem is just the head coach.
Nope, just recognising that in the end the head coach makes the decisions, and if he ignores his assistants, then they cannot be held accountable.
We have plenty of evidence that Schmidt is a good coach, and that Ryan is a great forwards coach. If they have turned to rubbish within one year, then it is one man that has done that.
When things were going dreadfully, Foster had no choice but to allow them to make changes. Once things were going well, we saw him revert to his favourite players and plays.
By the end of next year the whining about not having decent players will be gone. It will take the change of one man in the set-up. (I'm not even particularly pro-Robertson, I think that would happen if he were to resign and say Jamie Joseph got the job.)
And you have this deep inside knowledge of the discussions between Foster, Schmidt and Ryan how?
If you think all the problems can be solved by replacing one man and then in a few months NZ Rugby will be back to the glory days of 50 point shellackings of the Boks, then I could put you in touch with some people who are selling a bridge?
You only have to look at the U20 performance since 2016, the lack of player development, the innovation in coaching and rugby structure in the NH and NZR's seeming inability to notice the rugby world has moved on to see the problems are way deeper than that
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The harsh reality (and something to bear in mind when Razor takes over) is that this is the best crop of players we’ve got, for the most part. There isn’t a 23 sitting back home who should’ve been on the plane.
I realise that the 2024 squad will look vastly different anyway, but it’s going to take every inch of SR’s coaching prowess to make that team competitive.
But for now, we’re grinning and bearing.
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@Emjayo
At least Razor will have 4 years to get this rabble in order and find some new talent. -
@Chester-Draws said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Quick report from your local correspondent here in fucking hot Paris:
Backroom full of donkeys. Vaai, predictability, the worst of them. Tight five carried them. In as much as you can call that display "carried".
De Groot will want to forget that game in a hurry. ALB was MIA after that beautiful pop pass to Rieko.
Will Jordan is obviously a very dimwitted slow learner. Jump to contest you fuckwomble.Beaudy was bloody good until the final quarter. As was Mounga.
The blame for you Foster haters needs to be apportioned to the rest of the coaching staff who have had plenty of time to address the obvious issues. This was a collective display of incompetence.
The buck stops at the head coach. And with Ryan and Schmidt we have had some games which forwards really muscled up and attack was good versus decent opposition. Prior to them, none. So yes Ryan and Schmidt are part of the selectors and coaching team, but there has been improvement with them on board. Foster had the final say, and the midfield bomb/millions of sorry kicks/play in your own 22 has been the default under the entire foster tenure. And that leads to our losses
Ahh yes, the predictable lament that 'when we're good it's the assistants, when we're bad it's the head coach'. Those with a few more functioning synapses might start to look at the quality of player available and reflect on that body of evidence.
IMO you have to be a dimwit to believe that the problem is just the head coach.
Nope, just recognising that in the end the head coach makes the decisions, and if he ignores his assistants, then they cannot be held accountable.
We have plenty of evidence that Schmidt is a good coach, and that Ryan is a great forwards coach. If they have turned to rubbish within one year, then it is one man that has done that.
When things were going dreadfully, Foster had no choice but to allow them to make changes. Once things were going well, we saw him revert to his favourite players and plays.
By the end of next year the whining about not having decent players will be gone. It will take the change of one man in the set-up. (I'm not even particularly pro-Robertson, I think that would happen if he were to resign and say Jamie Joseph got the job.)
And you have this deep inside knowledge of the discussions between Foster, Schmidt and Ryan how?
If you think all the problems can be solved by replacing one man and then in a few months NZ Rugby will be back to the glory days of 50 point shellackings of the Boks, then I could put you in touch with some people who are selling a bridge?
You only have to look at the U20 performance since 2016, the lack of player development, the innovation in coaching and rugby structure in the NH and NZR's seeming inability to notice the rugby world has moved on to see the problems are way deeper than that
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
You only have to look at the U20 performance since 2016, the lack of player development,
This bit is a real worry we have dropped the ball in this area badly.
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@stodders problem is I dont think we have the composure and smarts to win this thing.
I also dont think Foster has it in him to adjust things, even though from the outside, they seem like simple changes
@taniwharugby i can see that. Foster was assistant coach of the 2015 team. He came up attack strategies that worked. But that team ran itself, with McCaw the leader.
For me, things started to go downhill when Read took over the captaincy. The attention to detail and the will to win that was so strong in the crop of 2015 was replaced by a more personable style. Read was a great player, but he didn’t extract greatness from others like McCaw.
And Foster isn’t a strong enough character to instill it in this team like Henry did when he took over in 2003 and set the ABs up for a decade and a bit of dominance.
