RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy
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@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
I watched that SA v Ireland game and kept thinking "Barrett or Mo'unga would have got bored by now and tried something risky to break the game open"
problem is you can throw D Mac in to that category as well.
We don't have that Sexton,Ford type player ,boring but effective at that sort of game.@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We don't have that Sexton,Ford type player ,boring but effective at that sort of game
Havili is probably closest...maybe move him to 10
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@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We don't have that Sexton,Ford type player ,boring but effective at that sort of game
Havili is probably closest...maybe move him to 10
@taniwharugby said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We don't have that Sexton,Ford type player ,boring but effective at that sort of game
Havili is probably closest...maybe move him to 10
Don't need to mate, when he plays with RMo, he is in at 1st receiver more than RMo usually.
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@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We don't have that Sexton,Ford type player ,boring but effective at that sort of game
Havili is probably closest...maybe move him to 10
@taniwharugby said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We don't have that Sexton,Ford type player ,boring but effective at that sort of game
Havili is
probably closest...maybe move him to 10ineffectiveFixed
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@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson
haven't you heard? Unlike all the players currently in the squad, he makes errors.
He should fit in well then.
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@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
I watched that SA v Ireland game and kept thinking "Barrett or Mo'unga would have got bored by now and tried something risky to break the game open"
problem is you can throw D Mac in to that category as well.
We don't have that Sexton,Ford type player ,boring but effective at that sort of game.yup, absolutely no debate here. The only slight counter i would give is i watched the Chiefs play the Crusaders the first time in SUper Rugby this year, and i watched a team containing DMac and Stephenson just repeatedly kick the ball long to Mo'unga and Havili until one of them cracked, at which point the Chiefs pounced. It was some of the smartest rugby i have ever seen the Chiefs play.
But if DMac was starting 10 right now in this team i would have the same fear
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
I watched that SA v Ireland game and kept thinking "Barrett or Mo'unga would have got bored by now and tried something risky to break the game open"
problem is you can throw D Mac in to that category as well.
We don't have that Sexton,Ford type player ,boring but effective at that sort of game.yup, absolutely no debate here. The only slight counter i would give is i watched the Chiefs play the Crusaders the first time in SUper Rugby this year, and i watched a team containing DMac and Stephenson just repeatedly kick the ball long to Mo'unga and Havili until one of them cracked, at which point the Chiefs pounced. It was some of the smartest rugby i have ever seen the Chiefs play.
But if DMac was starting 10 right now in this team i would have the same fear
There's a mythology that the Crusaders play a different style but in reality all the NZ sides play remarkably similar. The Chiefs were the exception this year with their kicking game. There were huge differences in their stats compared tot he other NZ sides
As for McKenzie if he was starting right now. He would be asked to play the same style as Foster/Roberston/MacDonald/etc want so there would be a lot of contestables
He would however not hide away if things aren't going well. He's perfectly happy to get smashed and call for the ball again and again. It's a good sort of arrogance. He doesn't sit waiting for highlight reel mismatches. In Test rugby those moments don't come often
He should've been given a decent run after SR but it's too late now (barring injury)
It's amazing how far AB standards have slipped. Mo'unga has been in the side for 7 seasons (he's about to turn the corner!) and he's had the same problems throughout his career. Yet we have pearl clutching because he's getting his share of criticism for the shitness with him as a backline general. Even genuine great of the game like Carter was getting criticised in early 2015 and there was a less pathetic reaction from maternalistic fans.
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Right, this is silly, you’re a good side and I watched a brilliant video of Fitzy talking about the power of the shirt today, talking about how the 30 living captains get together every year to talk about what it means to be an all black and how they can maintain that sense of what went before. It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances (not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy) from winning the whole thing. The fact you’re not convinced and neither are the chattering classes means the odds are worth it.
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Right, this is silly, you’re a good side and I watched a brilliant video of Fitzy talking about the power of the shirt today, talking about how the 30 living captains get together every year to talk about what it means to be an all black and how they can maintain that sense of what went before. It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances (not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy) from winning the whole thing. The fact you’re not convinced and neither are the chattering classes means the odds are worth it.
@Dodge said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Right, this is silly, you’re a good side and I watched a brilliant video of Fitzy talking about the power of the shirt today, talking about how the 30 living captains get together every year to talk about what it means to be an all black and how they can maintain that sense of what went before. It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances (not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy) from winning the whole thing. The fact you’re not convinced and neither are the chattering classes means the odds are worth it.
If you want to throw money away you can just send some to me.
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Right, this is silly, you’re a good side and I watched a brilliant video of Fitzy talking about the power of the shirt today, talking about how the 30 living captains get together every year to talk about what it means to be an all black and how they can maintain that sense of what went before. It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances (not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy) from winning the whole thing. The fact you’re not convinced and neither are the chattering classes means the odds are worth it.
@Dodge said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy
Yes there some strange shit on this forum right now. Don't criticise a ten that has underperformed for years but talk up the chances of losing to fucking Italy??
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Right, this is silly, you’re a good side and I watched a brilliant video of Fitzy talking about the power of the shirt today, talking about how the 30 living captains get together every year to talk about what it means to be an all black and how they can maintain that sense of what went before. It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances (not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy) from winning the whole thing. The fact you’re not convinced and neither are the chattering classes means the odds are worth it.
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Right, this is silly, you’re a good side and I watched a brilliant video of Fitzy talking about the power of the shirt today, talking about how the 30 living captains get together every year to talk about what it means to be an all black and how they can maintain that sense of what went before. It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances (not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy) from winning the whole thing. The fact you’re not convinced and neither are the chattering classes means the odds are worth it.
@Dodge said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances
In another post you questioned if we can win 3 games in a row. A fair call as this sides performance has been wildly inconsistent
I'm not sure I rate France, or SA to be any more likely to win 3 games in a row
Ireland? They are carrying some RWC mental scars. Three knockout games in a row will be tough
As shit as the team is by AB standards we are in the mix
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Exactly this Duluth, three games in a row definitely favours the best most consistent team, which is Ireland, but they have scars and are playing 4 in a row, France, who the fuck knows, no way is Dupont properly fit and he’s their general. South Africa don’t even know who their best 10 is…
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Carley is not a ref I enjoy watching, just seems overly pedantic and often leads to a stop start game. I wonder what he average time in play and penalties are for him vs the other RWC refs. Shame BOK is a kiwi as I would take him all day long.
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@Dodge said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Right, this is silly, you’re a good side and I watched a brilliant video of Fitzy talking about the power of the shirt today, talking about how the 30 living captains get together every year to talk about what it means to be an all black and how they can maintain that sense of what went before. It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances (not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy) from winning the whole thing. The fact you’re not convinced and neither are the chattering classes means the odds are worth it.
If you want to throw money away you can just send some to me.
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We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
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We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
@mariner4life yep, you’re fourth favourite but more in the sense of the 4th most attractive woman in miss world, rather than the 4th most attractive woman in a small village
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@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.So you're now also saying the Head coach and not the Forwards coach deserves the credit when the forwards are going well?
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.So you're now also saying the Head coach and not the Forwards coach deserves the credit when the forwards are going well?
Overall credit to the head coach absolutely - but we are hardly in that position are we?
Credit when things improve when the head coach stays the same and the forwards coach changes is always going to be debatable - not sure why you're not comfortable with that. -
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Aumua could have been ready in time
Aumua's big problem - that kept him out of the ABs, esp. since ST was picked - was his very poor line-out throwing. He got his chances, but didn't take them. It was only last year that he improved his line-out throwing. Injuries have played a role, too.
Anyway, if Aumua had been considered for the RWC squad, it would have been a choice between him and Coles.
@Stargazer That's fair - but then Taylor's terrible line-out throwing last year didn't keep him out of the ABs.
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@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.
