All Blacks 2024
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@Mr-Fish I agree if you are saying it’s a concern this year but I feel next year we will be in a much better place with locks.
Darry will be more experienced and hopefully continues to progress, Josh Lord(not that I like to bank on his health), when healthy is a player so here’s hoping he can remain healthy. Same could be said for Vai’i, hopefully he continues to progress. Fabian Holland is an absolute freak and would have been an All Black this season is he was eligible(he’s available next season), can’t wait to see him in the environment.
On a side note, I know for a fact that Razor and Jason Ryan are huge Zach Gallagher fans. If he can stay healthy and have a big season with the Canes, don’t be surprised if he’s around the environment also.
SB and PT are the 2 locks to be there, the rest will be great to see how it plays out, it’s not great right now but there’s talent there and could well be a position of strength come World Cup time.
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Mr-Fish I agree if you are saying it’s a concern this year but I feel next year we will be in a much better place with locks.
Darry will be more experienced and hopefully continues to progress, Josh Lord(not that I like to bank on his health), when healthy is a player so here’s hoping he can remain healthy. Same could be said for Vai’i, hopefully he continues to progress. Fabian Holland is an absolute freak and would have been an All Black this season is he was eligible(he’s available next season), can’t wait to see him in the environment.
On a side note, I know for a fact that Razor and Jason Ryan are huge Zach Gallagher fans. If he can stay healthy and have a big season with the Canes, don’t be surprised if he’s around the environment also.
SB and PT are the 2 locks to be there, the rest will be great to see how it plays out, it’s not great right now but there’s talent there and could well be a position of strength come World Cup time.
I think if any two of Josh Lord, Mitch Dunshea, Fabians Holland and Zach Gallagher are able to get through a full season next year then I'll be feeling very comfortable about the lock stocks. But obviously good/great Super Rugby players sometimes can't step up to the next level (Tuipulotu is the case in point) so we won't know for sure until they actually get the chance to prove themselves.
Really all I'm saying is that I don't feel any better now about the locks than I did a few weeks ago because simply based on what we've seen so far this year, a Scott Barrett/Tuipulotu combination isn't going to cut it against South Africa, Ireland or France.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As we've seen in the past, ALB is not who we want at 12 against top sides (and he never will be). If we're always running Barrett at 12 then we should be fine but we really need someone to back him up should injury strike.
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They should pick Sotutu not because he's Pom eligible, but because he's more than good enough, and because he doesn't play exactly the same as Cane, Dalton and Jacobson. Adding Cane without dropping Jacobson would be dumb, and I don't know why you would choose Cane over Jacobson - he may be a hell of a guy but he's 5 years older, injury-plagued and close to retirement.
The balance problem is vs big packs we have a small 8 so need a big 6, and we only have Finau. Playing any 2 of Cane/Jacobson/Dalton/Blackadder with Savea is a small loose trio, and (particularly if not Blackadder) it's a loose trio that lacks ball runners, when we have a front row that lacks ball runners too. Maybe Hoskins is a chance due to Finau not lighting it up, but unfortunately I doubt it.
How long since Lord played?
Havili would be a poor selection. Not because he's a bad player but because we already have ample injury cover in our side, meaning his utility value is severely diminished. He also plays 12 nothing like JB plays 12, so he's not a like-for-like injury replacement to keep the team pattern.
Plummer would be a good idea because every side is going to target McKenzie, as he is both our most creative player and small. And if we lose him, we're in big trouble. That was the case before the initial selections too though, so they probably won't.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
They should pick Sotutu not because he's Pom eligible, but because he's more than good enough, and because he doesn't play exactly the same as Cane, Dalton and Jacobson. Adding Cane without dropping Jacobson would be dumb, and I don't know why you would choose Cane over Jacobson - he may be a hell of a guy but he's 5 years older, injury-plagued and close to retirement.
The balance problem is vs big packs we have a small 8 so need a big 6, and we only have Finau. Playing any 2 of Cane/Jacobson/Dalton/Blackadder with Savea is a small loose trio, and (particularly if not Blackadder) it's a loose trio that lacks ball runners, when we have a front row that lacks ball runners too. Maybe Hoskins is a chance due to Finau not lighting it up, but unfortunately I doubt it.
How long since Lord played?
Havili would be a poor selection. Not because he's a bad player but because we already have ample injury cover in our side, meaning his utility value is severely diminished. He also plays 12 nothing like JB plays 12, so he's not a like-for-like injury replacement to keep the team pattern.
Plummer would be a good idea because every side is going to target McKenzie, as he is both our most creative player and small. And if we lose him, we're in big trouble. That was the case before the initial selections too though, so they probably won't.Yes, who is our backup 10, BB? I'd still prefer Plummer.
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Moving this conversation to a (IMO) more appropriate thread
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He played reasonably well against Fiji
So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely
Given I played at centre more than any other position I feel I understand it well enough.
Again for the slow: **It was a game destined to make the All Blacks look competent when contrasted against the England series * . The team that played against England would've revelled in the acres of time and space afforded them by Fiji's defence. *
But maybe you need to understand rugby better, or watch more closely.
Can sort of agree with this (but that wasn't the issue). But what about Reece. And even in a game like this players can still show the skills they have that others lack. Like Proctor and his distribution and decision making skills compared to Reiko. Maybe these skills will desert Proctor in a tight match but I hope to starts so we can see
I think Proctor will definitely get more opportunities given we have as many Tests as we do SR rounds these days. And it's categorically a Good Thing
that we have unearthed two very good centres currently in form for the All Blacks. The difficulty in determining form in this little experiment is replicability and changing important controls. Can Proctor play as well again when confronted by a disciplined rush defence while outside Jordie? How well can Rieko look against a Drua level defence outside ALB? -
Moving this conversation to a (IMO) more appropriate thread
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He played reasonably well against Fiji
So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely
Given I played at centre more than any other position I feel I understand it well enough.
Again for the slow: **It was a game destined to make the All Blacks look competent when contrasted against the England series * . The team that played against England would've revelled in the acres of time and space afforded them by Fiji's defence. *
But maybe you need to understand rugby better, or watch more closely.
Can sort of agree with this (but that wasn't the issue). But what about Reece. And even in a game like this players can still show the skills they have that others lack. Like Proctor and his distribution and decision making skills compared to Reiko. Maybe these skills will desert Proctor in a tight match but I hope to starts so we can see
I think Proctor will definitely get more opportunities given we have as many Tests as we do SR rounds these days. And it's categorically a Good Thing
that we have unearthed two very good centres currently in form for the All Blacks. The difficulty in determining form in this little experiment is replicability and changing important controls. Can Proctor play as well again when confronted by a disciplined rush defence while outside Jordie? How well can Rieko look against a Drua level defence outside ALB?@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Moving this conversation to a (IMO) more appropriate thread
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He played reasonably well against Fiji
So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely
Given I played at centre more than any other position I feel I understand it well enough.
Again for the slow: **It was a game destined to make the All Blacks look competent when contrasted against the England series * . The team that played against England would've revelled in the acres of time and space afforded them by Fiji's defence. *
But maybe you need to understand rugby better, or watch more closely.
Can sort of agree with this (but that wasn't the issue). But what about Reece. And even in a game like this players can still show the skills they have that others lack. Like Proctor and his distribution and decision making skills compared to Reiko. Maybe these skills will desert Proctor in a tight match but I hope to starts so we can see
I think Proctor will definitely get more opportunities given we have as many Tests as we do SR rounds these days. And it's categorically a Good Thing
that we have unearthed two very good centres currently in form for the All Blacks. The difficulty in determining form in this little experiment is replicability and changing important controls. Can Proctor play as well again when confronted by a disciplined rush defence while outside Jordie? How well can Rieko look against a Drua level defence outside ALB?Argentina Australia and South Africa will present a much sterner test of course. The RC and the EOYT are crucial and we need to see a few guys being given chances in games against quality opposition, plugged into set combinations, not just a few garbage time minutes or a bunch of newbies sent into bat like Dunedin last year. Fiji taught us little of real value
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As another Ferner has commented, Jordie is the only big, straight running 2nd five in the squad. I really like ALB, but after a hard hitting debut against the Boks he’s been a 12 who uses footwork rather than running hard lines. I think at test level he’s more effective at 13.
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Which is the worst reason to select anyone ever.
So you want to cap him again to make him ineligible for another 3 years for England and presumably once he has done that then he can be dropped again?
He won’t get picked in TRC squad.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
Which is the worst reason to select anyone ever.
So you want to cap him again to make him ineligible for another 3 years for England and presumably once he has done that then he can be dropped again?
He won’t get picked in TRC squad.
I was kidding.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As another Ferner has commented, Jordie is the only big, straight running 2nd five in the squad. I really like ALB, but after a hard hitting debut against the Boks he’s been a 12 who uses footwork rather than running hard lines. I think at test level he’s more effective at 13.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As another Ferner has commented, Jordie is the only big, straight running 2nd five in the squad. I really like ALB, but after a hard hitting debut against the Boks he’s been a 12 who uses footwork rather than running hard lines. I think at test level he’s more effective at 13.
See I don’t mind that sort of 12 when we have a 13 that plays direct like Proctor. A combination of different attributes.
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All Blacks to play Ireland at Soldier Field, Chicago in 2025: https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350351047/all-blacks-and-ireland-are-poised-meet-again-chicago-2025
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
Which is the worst reason to select anyone ever.
So you want to cap him again to make him ineligible for another 3 years for England and presumably once he has done that then he can be dropped again?
He won’t get picked in TRC squad.
I was kidding.
Next time you kid, make it funny!
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It really would be odd to select Paps, Cane, Niggles AND LJ. About as much variation as Richie Benaud’s trousers.
Logic would suggest one of those misses out. Another genuine 6 or 8 on the other hand would be most welcome.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
It really would be odd to select Paps, Cane, Niggles AND LJ. About as much variation as Richie Benaud’s trousers.
Logic would suggest one of those misses out. Another genuine 6 or 8 on the other hand would be most welcome.
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I recall Beauden and DMac playing really well together in the lead up to the RWC19, but then DMac got that long term injury and it became Mo'unga and BB which didn't work nearly as well.
Fast forward 5 years and DMac is a much better player. BB is getting old but shown he is still quick enough to be dangerous and is finding some good form.
The big surprise for me is Perofeta, and how well he has gone. I think he and BB should alternate the 15 jumper / bench spot, and Jordan should slot into 14 again with Clarke on the left.
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All Blacks to play Ireland at Soldier Field, Chicago in 2025: https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350351047/all-blacks-and-ireland-are-poised-meet-again-chicago-2025
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
All Blacks to play Ireland at Soldier Field, Chicago in 2025: https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350351047/all-blacks-and-ireland-are-poised-meet-again-chicago-2025
Oh thats awesome!
I will be for sure going again. -
All Blacks to play Ireland at Soldier Field, Chicago in 2025: https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350351047/all-blacks-and-ireland-are-poised-meet-again-chicago-2025
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
All Blacks to play Ireland at Soldier Field, Chicago in 2025: https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350351047/all-blacks-and-ireland-are-poised-meet-again-chicago-2025
I would imagine razor will take it a bit more seriously than last times carnival feeling
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
All Blacks to play Ireland at Soldier Field, Chicago in 2025: https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350351047/all-blacks-and-ireland-are-poised-meet-again-chicago-2025
I would imagine razor will take it a bit more seriously than last times carnival feeling
@Machpants That's interesting, Mrs has indicated perhaps a trip to USA next year (wats to see Grand Canyon) should be on radar. We doing a trip to Europe in about 7 weeks, kind of celebrating my 70th birthday, and she thinks we need to do something next year for hers! Chicago and AB test included may jusy get my juices going, also Chicago has got a bit of Blues music I believe!
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
Out of interest, who replaced Greg Feek as the AB scrum coach?
Ryan has taken over that role.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As another Ferner has commented, Jordie is the only big, straight running 2nd five in the squad. I really like ALB, but after a hard hitting debut against the Boks he’s been a 12 who uses footwork rather than running hard lines. I think at test level he’s more effective at 13.
See I don’t mind that sort of 12 when we have a 13 that plays direct like Proctor. A combination of different attributes.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As another Ferner has commented, Jordie is the only big, straight running 2nd five in the squad. I really like ALB, but after a hard hitting debut against the Boks he’s been a 12 who uses footwork rather than running hard lines. I think at test level he’s more effective at 13.
See I don’t mind that sort of 12 when we have a 13 that plays direct like Proctor. A combination of different attributes.
its a bit scary that the idea of judging players on how they will work with others around them to make the...."team"...rather than viewing each position individually.....is still so radical for lots of people
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I recall Beauden and DMac playing really well together in the lead up to the RWC19, but then DMac got that long term injury and it became Mo'unga and BB which didn't work nearly as well.
Fast forward 5 years and DMac is a much better player. BB is getting old but shown he is still quick enough to be dangerous and is finding some good form.
The big surprise for me is Perofeta, and how well he has gone. I think he and BB should alternate the 15 jumper / bench spot, and Jordan should slot into 14 again with Clarke on the left.
@No-Quarter Barrett and McKenzie worked, Mounga and McKenzie worked.
Barrett and Mounga did not work.
I don't think that was a coincidence. McKenzie is the guy who looks to create for others.
