All Blacks 2024
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he might be right. The big change between the Irish series and SA #1 to SA #2 was the coaches finally realising BB was 100% cooked as a first 5, and fucking him off for good.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I would rather Havili starting at 2nd-5 than Beauden starting at 1st-5.
far out short memories people. Havili looked great at 12 against 'lighter' teams, but got smoked when the physicality went up. He hasn't changed. You'll get the same outcome.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I would rather Havili starting at 2nd-5 than Beauden starting at 1st-5.
far out short memories people. Havili looked great at 12 against 'lighter' teams, but got smoked when the physicality went up. He hasn't changed. You'll get the same outcome.
I know I've said this before and pretty much everyone has disagreed, but IMO Havili isn't bad against more physical teams, he's bad when he's used as a battering ram against more physical teams. I'd like to think Razor is smarter than that.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B I could handle one of them on the bench, but why start them, why pick both?
I'm sure they will transition to the young guys - and I'll leave that up to Razor and Co. how fast they do it.
But, the most important thing at the moment is that we keep winning as much as possible (refer 2022). And, it's quite possible that the best combo to deliver consistent wins, right now, is to pick TJ and Finlay for the biggest games - even though from the outside it doesn't look like it.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Fozzie and Schmidt picked Finlay on the bench for the RWC Final and then Vern picked Finlay to start the play-off matches in Super this year.
We sort of go, WTF - but, we've had decades of All Black coaches telling us how important experience is. And decades of observing that it's harder to get dropped from the ABs than to get picked. And I think that happens for good reasons.
Hansen spent most of his tenure telling us how much experience should be valued - and then right at the end he abandoned his own philosophy - panicked and picked a rookie backline in 2019, when he could have picked experience - Beauden, SBW, Crotty, Reiko and Ben Smith (and Sam Cane). I wish someone would ask him about this (but, I digress).
We lost - and we lost in 2007 with a bunch of newbies running on among the inside backs.
To make a very ageist comment - but, fuck it, a girl at the supermarket checkout asked me if I was eligible for a gold card earlier this week
- none of the guys I mentioned earlier are 25 yet. And if I look at the sub-25 kids at my work, you barely trust them to do some filing in alphabetical order. And my bro-in-law, who's a builder, makes similar comments about his apprentices. These guys are just kids. Just because they're good at sport, doesn't mean they're proper grown ups to be entrusted with the keys to the ABs.And they'd be morons (or their agents would) to fuck off overseas at this point without racking up a bunch of test caps and ratcheting up their price.
So, I reckon, use TJ and Christie to lead them and support them this year. Develop Ratima. Bring Roigard in for the EOYT tour. Maybe take Hotham (or one of the others) on the EOYT as an apprentice.
TJ will disappear at the end of the year
If we've got three young guys ready for test rugby at the end of 2025 - with Finlay still in the mix and a couple of others knocking at the door and maybe with a couple of bench caps, that's plenty fast enough for me.
Always amusing reading posts like these with the benefit of knowing the squad (Christie dropped).
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B I could handle one of them on the bench, but why start them, why pick both?
I'm sure they will transition to the young guys - and I'll leave that up to Razor and Co. how fast they do it.
But, the most important thing at the moment is that we keep winning as much as possible (refer 2022). And, it's quite possible that the best combo to deliver consistent wins, right now, is to pick TJ and Finlay for the biggest games - even though from the outside it doesn't look like it.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Fozzie and Schmidt picked Finlay on the bench for the RWC Final and then Vern picked Finlay to start the play-off matches in Super this year.
We sort of go, WTF - but, we've had decades of All Black coaches telling us how important experience is. And decades of observing that it's harder to get dropped from the ABs than to get picked. And I think that happens for good reasons.
Hansen spent most of his tenure telling us how much experience should be valued - and then right at the end he abandoned his own philosophy - panicked and picked a rookie backline in 2019, when he could have picked experience - Beauden, SBW, Crotty, Reiko and Ben Smith (and Sam Cane). I wish someone would ask him about this (but, I digress).
We lost - and we lost in 2007 with a bunch of newbies running on among the inside backs.
To make a very ageist comment - but, fuck it, a girl at the supermarket checkout asked me if I was eligible for a gold card earlier this week
- none of the guys I mentioned earlier are 25 yet. And if I look at the sub-25 kids at my work, you barely trust them to do some filing in alphabetical order. And my bro-in-law, who's a builder, makes similar comments about his apprentices. These guys are just kids. Just because they're good at sport, doesn't mean they're proper grown ups to be entrusted with the keys to the ABs.And they'd be morons (or their agents would) to fuck off overseas at this point without racking up a bunch of test caps and ratcheting up their price.
So, I reckon, use TJ and Christie to lead them and support them this year. Develop Ratima. Bring Roigard in for the EOYT tour. Maybe take Hotham (or one of the others) on the EOYT as an apprentice.
TJ will disappear at the end of the year
If we've got three young guys ready for test rugby at the end of 2025 - with Finlay still in the mix and a couple of others knocking at the door and maybe with a couple of bench caps, that's plenty fast enough for me.
Always amusing reading posts like these with the benefit of knowing the squad (Christie dropped).
I was similarly wrong in 2022, when I said it would be a mistake to pick both of the rookies - Christie and Fakatava - ahead of TJ Perenara.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I would rather Havili starting at 2nd-5 than Beauden starting at 1st-5.
far out short memories people. Havili looked great at 12 against 'lighter' teams, but got smoked when the physicality went up. He hasn't changed. You'll get the same outcome.
I know I've said this before and pretty much everyone has disagreed, but IMO Havili isn't bad against more physical teams, he's bad when he's used as a battering ram against more physical teams. I'd like to think Razor is smarter than that.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I would rather Havili starting at 2nd-5 than Beauden starting at 1st-5.
far out short memories people. Havili looked great at 12 against 'lighter' teams, but got smoked when the physicality went up. He hasn't changed. You'll get the same outcome.
I know I've said this before and pretty much everyone has disagreed, but IMO Havili isn't bad against more physical teams, he's bad when he's used as a battering ram against more physical teams. I'd like to think Razor is smarter than that.
When the team got smoked and ran round like headless chooks, Havilli seemed to shoulder most of the blame. Wrong game plan for the wrong player. Not advocating for Havilli at all (form doesn't justify that esp. with JB & ALB in the mix) but a handy squad member with experience.
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The media is hyping Proctor quite a bit.
Desperate, as they are, for a Conrad Smith style center.
It all started from Justin Marshall and others have got on the bandwagon.
It's bloody good for Reiko (and by extension the team) to feel the heat though, and I hope he can raise his game accordingly. -
nah, watching the incumbent get dropped will send the Blues contingent off the edge far more than Proctor not getting his call up.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
nah, watching the incumbent get dropped will send the Blues contingent off the edge far more than Proctor not getting his call up.
Basically, just pick as many Crusaders and Chiefs as possible.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
nah, watching the incumbent get dropped will send the Blues contingent off the edge far more than Proctor not getting his call up.
Basically, just pick as many Crusaders and Chiefs as possible.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Basically, just pick as many Crusaders and Chiefs as possible.
Picking DMc hopefully won't trigger anyone. Picking Jordan on the wing likely won't either.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
Basically, just pick as many Crusaders and Chiefs as possible.
Picking DMc hopefully won't trigger anyone. Picking Jordan on the wing likely won't either.
@Chester-Draws My comment is less about the players and more about the fans who are most easily triggered!
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
nah, watching the incumbent get dropped will send the Blues contingent off the edge far more than Proctor not getting his call up.
Basically, just pick as many Crusaders and Chiefs as possible.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
nah, watching the incumbent get dropped will send the Blues contingent off the edge far more than Proctor not getting his call up.
Basically, just pick as many Crusaders and Chiefs as possible.
They don't even have to be match-hardened or 100% fit.
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given the squad, what would be the team to guarantee the most melts on here?
EdG
Taylor
Lomax
Patty T
Darry
Blackadder
Cane
Jacobson
TJP
DMac
Telea
ALB
Proctor
Jordan
PerofetaBell
Newell
Williams
Finau
DP
Hotham
Havili
BBarrett@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
given the squad, what would be the team to guarantee the most melts on here?
Starting G.Bell, Blackadder, Hotham, Havili.
I feel this day will come sooner rather than later and when that day comes I can not wait to jump on here and be amused
Just for laughs, an injury to the midfield and calling up McLeod or Ennor into the squad would top it off.
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9- Hotham (“it’s ridiculous that he is there and [insert Blues and Highlander halfback names] aren’t”)
10- Beaudie (“hasn’t played a good game at 10 for 4 years”)
11- Telea (“he is so slow”)
12- Havili (“why is he even in the squad, more Crusader bias”)
13- Proctor (“why have they dropped Ioane? First Akira now his brother. He’ll be in Japan by the end of the year”)
14- Love (“isn’t he a fullback?”)
15- Jordan (“isn’t he a winger?”)
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9- Hotham (“it’s ridiculous that he is there and [insert Blues and Highlander halfback names] aren’t”)
10- Beaudie (“hasn’t played a good game at 10 for 4 years”)
11- Telea (“he is so slow”)
12- Havili (“why is he even in the squad, more Crusader bias”)
13- Proctor (“why have they dropped Ioane? First Akira now his brother. He’ll be in Japan by the end of the year”)
14- Love (“isn’t he a fullback?”)
15- Jordan (“isn’t he a winger?”)
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
9- Hotham (“it’s ridiculous that he is there and [insert Blues and Highlander halfback names] aren’t”)
10- Beaudie (“hasn’t played a good game at 10 for 4 years”)
11- Telea (“he is so slow”)
12- Havili (“why is he even in the squad, more Crusader bias”)
13- Proctor (“why have they dropped Ioane? First Akira now his brother. He’ll be in Japan by the end of the year”)
14- Love (“isn’t he a fullback?”)
15- Jordan (“isn’t he a winger?”)
Ha, that’s only the backs too. Do the forwards now !!!!
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
9- Hotham (“it’s ridiculous that he is there and [insert Blues and Highlander halfback names] aren’t”)
10- Beaudie (“hasn’t played a good game at 10 for 4 years”)
11- Telea (“he is so slow”)
12- Havili (“why is he even in the squad, more Crusader bias”)
13- Proctor (“why have they dropped Ioane? First Akira now his brother. He’ll be in Japan by the end of the year”)
14- Love (“isn’t he a fullback?”)
15- Jordan (“isn’t he a winger?”)
Ha, that’s only the backs too. Do the forwards now !!!!
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
9- Hotham (“it’s ridiculous that he is there and [insert Blues and Highlander halfback names] aren’t”)
10- Beaudie (“hasn’t played a good game at 10 for 4 years”)
11- Telea (“he is so slow”)
12- Havili (“why is he even in the squad, more Crusader bias”)
13- Proctor (“why have they dropped Ioane? First Akira now his brother. He’ll be in Japan by the end of the year”)
14- Love (“isn’t he a fullback?”)
15- Jordan (“isn’t he a winger?”)
Ha, that’s only the backs too. Do the forwards now !!!!
there was a sneaky dig at a Blues forward in there (or a dig at his fans).
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
9- Hotham (“it’s ridiculous that he is there and [insert Blues and Highlander halfback names] aren’t”)
10- Beaudie (“hasn’t played a good game at 10 for 4 years”)
11- Telea (“he is so slow”)
12- Havili (“why is he even in the squad, more Crusader bias”)
13- Proctor (“why have they dropped Ioane? First Akira now his brother. He’ll be in Japan by the end of the year”)
14- Love (“isn’t he a fullback?”)
15- Jordan (“isn’t he a winger?”)
Ha, that’s only the backs too. Do the forwards now !!!!
there was a sneaky dig at a Blues forward in there (or a dig at his fans).
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
9- Hotham (“it’s ridiculous that he is there and [insert Blues and Highlander halfback names] aren’t”)
10- Beaudie (“hasn’t played a good game at 10 for 4 years”)
11- Telea (“he is so slow”)
12- Havili (“why is he even in the squad, more Crusader bias”)
13- Proctor (“why have they dropped Ioane? First Akira now his brother. He’ll be in Japan by the end of the year”)
14- Love (“isn’t he a fullback?”)
15- Jordan (“isn’t he a winger?”)
Ha, that’s only the backs too. Do the forwards now !!!!
there was a sneaky dig at a Blues forward in there (or a dig at his fans).
Instant ban coming up
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I think for loose forwards:
6 : Papali'i
7 : Cane
8 : Blackadder@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I think for loose forwards:
6 : Papali'i
7 : Cane
8 : BlackadderThey can play paper, rock, scissors at each scrum.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I think for loose forwards:
6 : Papali'i
7 : Cane
8 : BlackadderThey can play paper, rock, scissors at each scrum.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I think for loose forwards:
6 : Papali'i
7 : Cane
8 : BlackadderThey can play paper, rock, scissors at each scrum.
As a unit I’d call them 6.66s. I think they veer slightly more to the 7 than the 6
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I think for loose forwards:
6 : Papali'i
7 : Cane
8 : BlackadderThey can play paper, rock, scissors at each scrum.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024:
I think for loose forwards:
6 : Papali'i
7 : Cane
8 : BlackadderThey can play paper, rock, scissors at each scrum.
Sounds pretty dangerous for Ethan
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
fetchers
Not sure that's been a thing since early MCaw
TBF it’s not uncommon for open sides not to be fetchers. The Boks rely heavily on Quagga and Marx for pilfering, because neither starting flanker is adept.
Who would be top pilferers in ABs? RD is excellent at showcase steals near our goal line, but less so elsewhere. LJ was quite effective for Chiefs, in particular when playing 7. Paps, Cane and Niggles seem infrequent proponents. Codie can be quite effective. Who am I missing?
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
fetchers
Not sure that's been a thing since early MCaw
TBF it’s not uncommon for open sides not to be fetchers. The Boks rely heavily on Quagga and Marx for pilfering, because neither starting flanker is adept.
Who would be top pilferers in ABs? RD is excellent at showcase steals near our goal line, but less so elsewhere. LJ was quite effective for Chiefs, in particular when playing 7. Paps, Cane and Niggles seem infrequent proponents. Codie can be quite effective. Who am I missing?
