All Blacks 2024
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
A big problem is how slow our loosies are, and the answer is to move a guy there who was too slow 5 years ago?
Exactly - and even worse when he's already played 60 minutes and is half-knackered - up against a pretty much entirely replaced pack.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
A big problem is how slow our loosies are, and the answer is to move a guy there who was too slow 5 years ago?
Exactly - and even worse when he's already played 60 minutes and is half-knackered - up against a pretty much entirely replaced pack.
Definitely need another loosie on the bench. If something does wrong Ardie can always go to the wing...
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Just wondering what Razors expectations for wins-losses would have been for 2024.
Obviously he would have wanted to win every game but I reckon with the changes in playing group he may have expected
1-1. Win/loss against England
2-0 against Argentina
1-1 against South Africa
2-0 against Oz
1-0 against Japan
3-1 in EuropeAnd that would be regarded as a pretty decent first year
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
A big problem is how slow our loosies are, and the answer is to move a guy there who was too slow 5 years ago?
yes yes, but he's slow and tall! And reasonably powerful.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
A big problem is how slow our loosies are, and the answer is to move a guy there who was too slow 5 years ago?
yes yes, but he's slow and tall! And reasonably powerful.
And unlike, say, Finau he's not a card ri, ah fuck.
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I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
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I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
Same. The positive spin is that they recognise he's got a tonne of potential but not as ready for tests as they hoped, so investing a lot of time on him at training.
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I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
Hmmm. Options
- he starts
- he’s on the bench
- he’s not in the 23
He’s had 1,2,3 this season and he did ok at 3.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
Hmmm. Options
- he starts
- he’s on the bench
- he’s not in the 23
He’s had 1,2,3 this season and he did ok at 3.
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
Hmmm. Options
- he starts
- he’s on the bench
- he’s not in the 23
He’s had 1,2,3 this season and he did ok at 3.
Righto. I see you missed the point completely.
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I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
I thought they showed a fair bit of faith in the young fella by giving him both starts against the Poms ahead of LJ. He played 110+ minutes in those games having only played one test prior.
I thought test one he was okayish, the second one he struggled a little but nothing too outrageous, but something for the coaches to work with him on in a training environment. from my armchair there was probably one concerning matter but again nothing that will see him put on the heap.
The less game time did also coincide with the return of EB. I don’t think he’s on a hiding to nothing yet. He’s still very much finding his feet and his minutes will be up and down not dissimilar to many others just starting out in the ABs.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
I really dislike how Finau gets treated. Gets given a random game here and there to "prove" himself. Sure he's looked pretty bad but he's a young guy with fuck all tests and just gets thrown in randomly and turfed when it doesn't work. He's on a hiding to nothing.
I thought they showed a fair bit of faith in the young fella by giving him both starts against the Poms ahead of LJ. He played 110+ minutes in those games having only played one test prior.
I thought test one he was okayish, the second one he struggled a little but nothing too outrageous, but something for the coaches to work with him on in a training environment. from my armchair there was probably one concerning matter but again nothing that will see him put on the heap.
The less game time did also coincide with the return of EB. I don’t think he’s on a hiding to nothing yet. He’s still very much finding his feet and his minutes will be up and down not dissimilar to many others just starting out in the ABs.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Personally I think Roigard will give the Boks kittens and have no idea why Foster omitted him from the RWC final. This is the same guy who ran 60 meters from the base of a ruck and skinned 5 of their players 3 weeks earlier. He would have definitely kept them guessing with that fresh in their memory.
For a bloke who's played 3 Tests, started 1, and scored a solo try in the dying moments against a Bokke team physically knackered from giving the AB's an absolute thumping in essentially a exhibition match, Roigard sure seems to have morphed into an absolute AB legend capable of singe-handedly turning around the AB's fortunes.........
Terrific potential though.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Personally I think Roigard will give the Boks kittens and have no idea why Foster omitted him from the RWC final. This is the same guy who ran 60 meters from the base of a ruck and skinned 5 of their players 3 weeks earlier. He would have definitely kept them guessing with that fresh in their memory.
For a bloke who's played 3 Tests, started 1, and scored a solo try in the dying moments against a Bokke team physically knackered from giving the AB's an absolute thumping in essentially a exhibition match, Roigard sure seems to have morphed into an absolute AB legend capable of singe-handedly turning around the AB's fortunes.........
Terrific potential though.
One of the fern motto's - The less you play, the higher you get rated?
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https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/nz-defiant-overseas-player-debate/
I don't have any right to comment on the NZ game... however I can say this:
- picking foreign-based players strengthens the Boks
- it allows our players to experience new competitions and cultures
- they bring back learnings from around the world
- it gives younger players a chance in RSA
- overall it's win-win
That's all
Best wishes
B -
I think in general the bench in pro rugby is still an area that has a heap of untapped potential.
Coaches want impact from the bench.
Coaches want coverage from the bench.
In a lot of cases I don't think Coaches have a great understanding of what goes behind getting great performance out of your bench.
There doesn't seem to be a genuine strategy to the AB bench
ALB and Telea are a prime example. ALB looks far better at 12 but is on the bench to cover 12/13/wing. Telea is on the bench to cover both wings but has been in poor form the past few months and doesn't have history of being a strong bench performer.
Let's say Beauden and Rieko were on the bench. I could see the thinking there. Beauden has a history of strong bench performances and Rieko's speed and power could suit.
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@ACT-Crusader you can't ignore that getting thrown in for random minutes here and there is hardly ideal. Makes for great canon fodder for the casual observer though.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader you can't ignore that getting thrown in for random minutes here and there is hardly ideal. Makes for great canon fodder for the casual observer though.
Razor wasted opportunity to give some of the bench meaningful reps in earlier games but sending them all out together and letting run around a bit
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I think in general the bench in pro rugby is still an area that has a heap of untapped potential.
Coaches want impact from the bench.
Coaches want coverage from the bench.
In a lot of cases I don't think Coaches have a great understanding of what goes behind getting great performance out of your bench.
There doesn't seem to be a genuine strategy to the AB bench
ALB and Telea are a prime example. ALB looks far better at 12 but is on the bench to cover 12/13/wing. Telea is on the bench to cover both wings but has been in poor form the past few months and doesn't have history of being a strong bench performer.
Let's say Beauden and Rieko were on the bench. I could see the thinking there. Beauden has a history of strong bench performances and Rieko's speed and power could suit.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
I think in general the bench in pro rugby is still an area that has a heap of untapped potential.
Coaches want impact from the bench.
Coaches want coverage from the bench.
In a lot of cases I don't think Coaches have a great understanding of what goes behind getting great performance out of your bench.
There doesn't seem to be a genuine strategy to the AB bench
ALB and Telea are a prime example. ALB looks far better at 12 but is on the bench to cover 12/13/wing. Telea is on the bench to cover both wings but has been in poor form the past few months and doesn't have history of being a strong bench performer.
Let's say Beauden and Rieko were on the bench. I could see the thinking there. Beauden has a history of strong bench performances and Rieko's speed and power could suit.
Back in the day we prided ourselves on our bench, just the way the Boks do now. The drop between the starters and the bench is far too steep, somehow they have to either find better players, change the combinations, or change the plan to suit the personnel they do have
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https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/nz-defiant-overseas-player-debate/
I don't have any right to comment on the NZ game... however I can say this:
- picking foreign-based players strengthens the Boks
- it allows our players to experience new competitions and cultures
- they bring back learnings from around the world
- it gives younger players a chance in RSA
- overall it's win-win
That's all
Best wishes
B@Brandon said in All Blacks 2024:
https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/nz-defiant-overseas-player-debate/
I don't have any right to comment on the NZ game... however I can say this:
- picking foreign-based players strengthens the Boks
- it allows our players to experience new competitions and cultures
- they bring back learnings from around the world
- it gives younger players a chance in RSA
- overall it's win-win
That's all
Best wishes
BInteresting take, and I think I can definitely agree with all of the above having a net positive effect in the short term. The longer-term implications, I haven't really figured out. The common view is that selecting plyers from overseas will lead to an exodus of all our best players. And while this might increase the pool of professional players available for selection, the overall compounding effect will be gradually to reduce the quality of talent coming through because (a) those young guys playing in NZ will not get exposed to the best players available, (b) this will then affect their development, (c) this will reduce the overall number of guys heading overseas as the overall quality goes down, (d) this will also reduce interest in our domestic comps because of an overall lack of quality (c.f. the NPC), (e) this waning interest will manifest itself in less people playing rugby and which will further compound (c) above, and (f) this will all result in the gradual worsening of our quality over time at All Black level.
I can certainly see the logic in this view, but I am not sure if this is exactly how it would play out because, so long as (1) young kiwi blokes can earn good coin somewhere in the world playing pro rugby, but (2) playing rugby domestically in NZ is the best vehicle for them to begin their journey and get the exposure to earn that coin, then there should always be some kind of pipeline of talent coming through.
And, in any case, our AB level stocks are already waning, and we already select guys who have been playing overseas.
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It's pretty simple with the overseas based players debate. If we want our comp turning into virtually the NPC at Super level, then yeah, allow everyone to play overseas.
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https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/nz-defiant-overseas-player-debate/
I don't have any right to comment on the NZ game... however I can say this:
- picking foreign-based players strengthens the Boks
- it allows our players to experience new competitions and cultures
- they bring back learnings from around the world
- it gives younger players a chance in RSA
- overall it's win-win
That's all
Best wishes
B@Brandon very interesting that Victor Matfield while reflecting on their change to allow overseas players picked believed that it had increased their player pool by not only picking overseas players but also exposing younger players to senior rugby more quickly. He said it was a win win. I would be open to explore the rule which allowed 40 game All blacks the ability to go overseas and be picked after 40 games for the ABs.
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@Brandon very interesting that Victor Matfield while reflecting on their change to allow overseas players picked believed that it had increased their player pool by not only picking overseas players but also exposing younger players to senior rugby more quickly. He said it was a win win. I would be open to explore the rule which allowed 40 game All blacks the ability to go overseas and be picked after 40 games for the ABs.
it wasn't an issue when Super was the top comp in the world - so going north meant going to play a lower grade of footy. Now Super is off the pace; players coming back are stars rather than 'also rans'. The season alignment is also a headache (NH/SH).
I'm philosophically opposed to robbing Super of ABs to let them play away - you lose all control of them for playing minutes, training, style of game etc. NZR are minnows internationally (business-wise); we have to leverage everything we've got to be competitive.
