All Blacks vs England I
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
I think we all agree the loose trio is still looking unsettled. But during the last era and possibly this one we are still undecided on the best trio.
Who is we?
It was very clear in the 18 months leading up to the RWC that in the minds of the selectors our top trio was Frizell, Cane and Savea.
Two of those currently unavailable so back to the drawing board.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England I:
I think we all agree the loose trio is still looking unsettled. But during the last era and possibly this one we are still undecided on the best trio.
Who is we?
It was very clear in the 18 months leading up to the RWC that in the minds of the selectors our top trio was Frizell, Cane and Savea.
Two of those currently unavailable so back to the drawing board.
Fair enough
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Highlights with the English commentary -
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Very pleased to get the win - 10 days in camp with a rebuild squad - I was very apprehensive about this game.
Unavailable from the 23 that played in the final 6 months ago - Retallick, Frizell, Cane, Smith, Mo'unga, Jordan, Taukei'aho, Laulala, Whitelock - plus squaddies Coles, Roigard and Fainga'anuku.
That's a shitload of depth to have to replace.
Not surprised that we didn't see too much in the way of a discernable new pattern. Have to be very careful about downloading too much new stuff in 10 days.
Get through these three games - then we've got three weeks before the Rugby Championship - I'd hope to see some significant new stuff emerging as we progress through that.
A baseline performance put down - lots to work on this week - and, importantly, a win!
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England I:
On the positive I enjoyed the game and really looking forward to next week. I am confident the coaches will grow over the season and adapt as they go.
This is the first test and people on here are shitting themselves. I have complete and utter confidence in Razor and his team. in 3 years and 7 years time when we are winning our 4th and 5th world cup all the criticism will be laughed at.
@mencey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England I:
On the positive I enjoyed the game and really looking forward to next week. I am confident the coaches will grow over the season and adapt as they go.
This is the first test and people on here are shitting themselves. I have complete and utter confidence in Razor and his team. in 3 years and 7 years time when we are winning our 4th and 5th world cup all the criticism will be laughed at.
I'm having what your having
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I skimmed through the stats.. A lot of things more or less even
England had to make a lot more tackles (198 v 109). Despite that the carry metres were similar (NZ 337m v 332m)
Some of the carry stats
NZ Eng carries_metres 337m 332m carry_dominant 44 30 carry_ineffective 3 7 carry_neutral 94 47 ruck_over_gainline_percent 33% 45% ruck_speed 0-3secs 73 34 ruck_speed 0-3secs % 62% 45% So we got plenty of ball & lots of it quick. However England stopped us making much ground
Looking at the dominant carries it's interesting how many of them were from backs:
Both teams weren't great on defence, only 77% for NZ and 76% for England. I would hope that is about learning a new system.
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Could we have tackles and turnovers won, please? ESPN, even if not there most accurate, don't have anything at all
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England I:
Could we have tackles and turnovers won, please? ESPN, even if not there most accurate, don't have anything at all
Turnovers won
Tackles
Player Made Missed Papali'i 15 2 S Barrett 9 1 Finau 9 3 Taylor 8 2 Savea 8 0 EDG 7 1 Tuipulotu 7 1 Christie 7 3 Lomax 7 1 McKenzie 7 0 Here's the ruck arrivals too:
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@mencey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England I:
On the positive I enjoyed the game and really looking forward to next week. I am confident the coaches will grow over the season and adapt as they go.
This is the first test and people on here are shitting themselves. I have complete and utter confidence in Razor and his team. in 3 years and 7 years time when we are winning our 4th and 5th world cup all the criticism will be laughed at.
I'm having what your having
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs England I:
@mencey said in All Blacks vs England I:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England I:
On the positive I enjoyed the game and really looking forward to next week. I am confident the coaches will grow over the season and adapt as they go.
This is the first test and people on here are shitting themselves. I have complete and utter confidence in Razor and his team. in 3 years and 7 years time when we are winning our 4th and 5th world cup all the criticism will be laughed at.
I'm having what your having
A massive cup of Hubris by the looks of it. How embarrassing.
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks vs England I:
Fucking laughable rankings. Ardie rated higher than Jordie? Marcus Smith a better game than Furbank? What game did this fuckwit Winston Aldworth watch?
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
Fucking laughable rankings. Ardie rated higher than Jordie? Marcus Smith a better game than Furbank? What game did this fuckwit Winston Aldworth watch?
At least he got Itoje right. Completely different player now Borthwick's got his head right.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
Fucking laughable rankings. Ardie rated higher than Jordie? Marcus Smith a better game than Furbank? What game did this fuckwit Winston Aldworth watch?
At least he got Itoje right. Completely different player now Borthwick's got his head right.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
Fucking laughable rankings. Ardie rated higher than Jordie? Marcus Smith a better game than Furbank? What game did this fuckwit Winston Aldworth watch?
At least he got Itoje right. Completely different player now Borthwick's got his head right.
Still screams like a fuckwit at every oppo lineout, the tosser
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
Fucking laughable rankings. Ardie rated higher than Jordie? Marcus Smith a better game than Furbank? What game did this fuckwit Winston Aldworth watch?
At least he got Itoje right. Completely different player now Borthwick's got his head right.
Still screams like a fuckwit at every oppo lineout, the tosser
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
Fucking laughable rankings. Ardie rated higher than Jordie? Marcus Smith a better game than Furbank? What game did this fuckwit Winston Aldworth watch?
At least he got Itoje right. Completely different player now Borthwick's got his head right.
Still screams like a fuckwit at every oppo lineout, the tosser
Worked though.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
Fucking laughable rankings. Ardie rated higher than Jordie? Marcus Smith a better game than Furbank? What game did this fuckwit Winston Aldworth watch?
At least he got Itoje right. Completely different player now Borthwick's got his head right.
Still screams like a fuckwit at every oppo lineout, the tosser
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England I:
Fucking laughable rankings. Ardie rated higher than Jordie? Marcus Smith a better game than Furbank? What game did this fuckwit Winston Aldworth watch?
At least he got Itoje right. Completely different player now Borthwick's got his head right.
Still screams like a fuckwit at every oppo lineout, the tosser
This is really trying to stretch the hate. He’s no Matt Dawson.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England I:
Could we have tackles and turnovers won, please? ESPN, even if not there most accurate, don't have anything at all
Turnovers won
Tackles
Player Made Missed Papali'i 15 2 S Barrett 9 1 Finau 9 3 Taylor 8 2 Savea 8 0 EDG 7 1 Tuipulotu 7 1 Christie 7 3 Lomax 7 1 McKenzie 7 0 Here's the ruck arrivals too:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England I:
Could we have tackles and turnovers won, please? ESPN, even if not there most accurate, don't have anything at all
Turnovers won
Tackles
Player Made Missed Papali'i 15 2 S Barrett 9 1 Finau 9 3 Taylor 8 2 Savea 8 0 EDG 7 1 Tuipulotu 7 1 Christie 7 3 Lomax 7 1 McKenzie 7 0 Here's the ruck arrivals too:
PT with 14??? How much of that is gameplan - seems damn lazy otherwise.
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Looks like two players from 4-8 are doing most of the heavy lifting. Papalii is limited but he works, while Scooter continues his grunt work. From looking at that, we’ve got the continuing Savea issue, the need for Finau to get more involved across the game, and the case of Pat T who again doesn’t seem to quite bring his work rate to this level.
I feel like the last one is the more pressing issue.
They won’t do anything to address the loose forward issue, and adding Blackadder may make our 75% functioning line out even worse.
I’m prepared to say that we’d likely have gotten roughly the same out of Sotutu in the Ardie role, with the added benefit of a real line out option.
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Robertson is a breath of fresh air with the press: open, honest, doesn’t blame others, stands up for his players.
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Looks like two players from 4-8 are doing most of the heavy lifting. Papalii is limited but he works, while Scooter continues his grunt work. From looking at that, we’ve got the continuing Savea issue, the need for Finau to get more involved across the game, and the case of Pat T who again doesn’t seem to quite bring his work rate to this level.
I feel like the last one is the more pressing issue.
They won’t do anything to address the loose forward issue, and adding Blackadder may make our 75% functioning line out even worse.
I’m prepared to say that we’d likely have gotten roughly the same out of Sotutu in the Ardie role, with the added benefit of a real line out option.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs England I:
Looks like two players from 4-8 are doing most of the heavy lifting. Papalii is limited but he works, while Scooter continues his grunt work. From looking at that, we’ve got the continuing Savea issue, the need for Finau to get more involved across the game, and the case of Pat T who again doesn’t seem to quite bring his work rate to this level.
I feel like the last one is the more pressing issue.
They won’t do anything to address the loose forward issue, and adding Blackadder may make our 75% functioning line out even worse.
I’m prepared to say that we’d likely have gotten roughly the same out of Sotutu in the Ardie role, with the added benefit of a real line out option.
Lol Ardie hasn't played for 2 months, he's only going to get better. Based on the WC final last year we know where Ardie can get to and that's not a ceiling Sotutu can reach IMO.
Dalton needs to do more, if he's meant to be our dominant tackler at seven then simply falling off tackles when the game is on the line isn't good enough. Same goes for Finau. That's why I wouldn't mind seeing Blackadder in the mix next week, whether it be at 6 or 7.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs England I:
Looks like two players from 4-8 are doing most of the heavy lifting. Papalii is limited but he works, while Scooter continues his grunt work. From looking at that, we’ve got the continuing Savea issue, the need for Finau to get more involved across the game, and the case of Pat T who again doesn’t seem to quite bring his work rate to this level.
I feel like the last one is the more pressing issue.
They won’t do anything to address the loose forward issue, and adding Blackadder may make our 75% functioning line out even worse.
I’m prepared to say that we’d likely have gotten roughly the same out of Sotutu in the Ardie role, with the added benefit of a real line out option.
Lol Ardie hasn't played for 2 months, he's only going to get better. Based on the WC final last year we know where Ardie can get to and that's not a ceiling Sotutu can reach IMO.
Dalton needs to do more, if he's meant to be our dominant tackler at seven then simply falling off tackles when the game is on the line isn't good enough. Same goes for Finau. That's why I wouldn't mind seeing Blackadder in the mix next week, whether it be at 6 or 7.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs England I:
that's not a ceiling Sotutu can reach IMO.
is that a height joke again?
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I'd give the same forward pack another go of it at Eden Park. Some times you can do everything right and the game doesn't come to you.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs England I:
Finau missing by the look of it - confirms the eye test a bit
Worth noting he was only on for 60mins. So would have finished higher on various stats if he kept the same rate up.
Only his second or third test so we shouldn’t expect Kaino mkII straight away.
