Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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Further to my above post
Make a cup of tea
Most observers believe the ‘Bomb Squad’ is responsible for much of SA’s success
It’s more nuanced than that, and it’s the nuances which make more of a difference I believe
And which makes Rassie one of the all-time best coaches
Every coach endeavours to identify, select and develop at least 2, preferably 3 players in each position who will fit into the coach’s system and philosophy
Whilst there is a pecking order in the ability from 1st choice to 3rd choice the goal is to minimise the fall off of performance as you work through the ranks
In an ideal world the best XV will take the field and remain on the field
But with the nature of the modern game’s substitutions and forced and unenforced stoppages (‘injury’ breaks) it’s a rare match where all 23 players are not involved at some stage of the match
Selection of the 23 and the starting XV is paramount
If you keep too many of your best players on the bench to impact the match later on you may / would normally find that the match has already gone away from you and even these great players can’t affect the outcome
What Rassie does better than anyone else I believe is select a starting XV which will be in contention at the 50-60 minute mark
From the 50th minute he’s looking to introduce individuals or groups of players who are arguably not the best in their position but who are the smartest and most analytical thinkers
Referees are more lenient earlier on in the match with regards to penalising and definitely YC for professionalism, weak scrums and killing the ball
So as the referee warms into the match and begins to see patterns developing he’s more likely to penalise those committing the transgressions more frequently and more severely
This is where players like Marks and Kwagga come in
The drop off in ability from whom they replace is slight
Invariably these are the thinkers
Rassie and they have identified where they can have the most impact on the match with the least amount of censureWhilst both these players get penalised, they’re not penalty magnets
They commit their fouls in the right part of the park at the right time
Unlike other teams where the substitutes are behind the pace of the game and make dumb decisions which result in penalties and/or YCs
If SA are in the lead when players like these come on the referee interprets any 50/50 call in their favour more often than not
In the ref’s mind ‘SA are on top, these players are just reinforcing that. They’re fresh. Must have been the other guy committing the foul’
If SA are losing, they’ll soak up the pressure and seize the moment to turn the ball over when it presents itself. They don’t rush. They don’t let the adrenaline affect their decision making.
They’re fresher and also very skilled at turning the ball over and invariably they win the ball by fair means or get the call if it’s debatable
This then begins to change the narrative in the referee’s mind and if SA start pegging back the score then the referee starts to almost ‘reward’ this new found dominance. If becomes a virtuous cycle.
Conversely, other teams throw in a rookie who isn’t as disciplined and who becomes a penalty magnet
Or throw in a player who plays the game very differently from the player they’ve replaced and then the shape and patterns of play goes to shit
That’s why my suggestion of
Darry, Vaa’i
Scooter, Cane/Paps, ArdieBlackadder, Cane/Paps and possibly Finau
makes more sense than Razor’s selection and substitutions to date
But what do I know, I’m Welsh
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12- Havili
Under the pump, must win, coach feeling a little pressure, secret weapon.15- Jordie Barrett
His running game is needed at the back. Plus better opportunity to use his boot to clear the ballJacobson (if fit) to the bench.
If Clarke is out, they will likely start MT. I’d go for Reece for workrate.
@ACT-Crusader
It wasn’t until Jordie was moved away from fullback under Fozzy that the ABs made advances. He is not fast enough to play FB. Will Jordan or Beaudy would be my pics. -
Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
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Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
@Boston-Boy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
Or use Proctor
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If I was Razor I would start the young guys in the backline.
He knows he's got public support on his side after a good performance that wasn't quite good enough.
Minimal moaning from NZ fans as we are quietly proud of the scrum and lineouts. We are competing.
We won't win the RC regardless. -
BB at 13? Who will he hospital pass to?
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Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
@Boston-Boy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
We need to wait until a World Cup year to try that.
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@Boston-Boy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
We need to wait until a World Cup year to try that.
@Smudge said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Boston-Boy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
We need to wait until a World Cup year to try that.
You are such a support in these dark times!
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Here’s a thought
Darry and Vaa’i in the engine room
Scooter, Cane/Paps, SaveaBlackadder and Cane/Paps on the pine
Possibly Finau too@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a thought
Darry and Vaa’i in the engine room
Scooter, Cane/Paps, SaveaBlackadder and Cane/Paps on the pine
Possibly Finau tooLineout was fine. Scooter stays where he is.
Blackadder was more than fine. So he'll start again.One of Cane or Paps will be on the bench.
Savea needs a much better performance or very serious questions will be asked.
Yeah, I'd go with a 6-2 bench. Jacobson (or Savea) to come on with 20 to go.Most importantly, we are still going to play our game plan because we have the skilful players to play at pace. We're not the international team that have lost our only world-class player to the Jacksonville Jaguars practice squad.
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Howzit gents. I was at the game on Saturday and it was every bit as physical as you can imagine. Heard the collisions - a top notch heavy-weight encounter that did justice to our sport. Anyway that being said I think this week in Cape Town could be very interesting. I suspect (from Rassie comments) that we will see some backline tweaks. I will not be surprised to see Grant Williams start at 9 with Lukhanyo Am coming in at 12. With Arendse out Canan Moodie most likely to fill that spot. Siya is out so will be interesting to see what happens there. And then #10 is going to be quite the debate. Solid money says Sasha continues but some of Rassie's comments makes me think he could do something weird there... I prefer he sticks with Sasha but then I am not the Bok coach
Look forward to another epic clash. -
@Brandon Welcome. I thought Williams was a huge improvement at halfback for you guys. Would be fun to see Ratima vs Williams both as starting halfbacks.
@KiwiMurph howzit and thanks for the welcome. been here a long time actually just had to re-register at some stage and then actually comment a bit - always enjoyed this forum. I agree with your comment - will be great to see those 9s go at it!
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So for three games in a row our bench hasnt added value.
Who goes onto the bench to improve that?
Loosies still not what we want but do we even have the cattle for what we want? -
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a thought
Darry and Vaa’i in the engine room
Scooter, Cane/Paps, SaveaBlackadder and Cane/Paps on the pine
Possibly Finau tooLineout was fine. Scooter stays where he is.
Blackadder was more than fine. So he'll start again.One of Cane or Paps will be on the bench.
Savea needs a much better performance or very serious questions will be asked.
Yeah, I'd go with a 6-2 bench. Jacobson (or Savea) to come on with 20 to go.Most importantly, we are still going to play our game plan because we have the skilful players to play at pace. We're not the international team that have lost our only world-class player to the Jacksonville Jaguars practice squad.
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a thought
Darry and Vaa’i in the engine room
Scooter, Cane/Paps, SaveaBlackadder and Cane/Paps on the pine
Possibly Finau tooLineout was fine. Scooter stays where he is.
Blackadder was more than fine. So he'll start again.One of Cane or Paps will be on the bench.
Savea needs a much better performance or very serious questions will be asked.
Yeah, I'd go with a 6-2 bench. Jacobson (or Savea) to come on with 20 to go.Most importantly, we are still going to play our game plan because we have the skilful players to play at pace. We're not the international team that have lost our only world-class player to the Jacksonville Jaguars practice squad.
And yet we both lost to SA
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@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a thought
Darry and Vaa’i in the engine room
Scooter, Cane/Paps, SaveaBlackadder and Cane/Paps on the pine
Possibly Finau tooLineout was fine. Scooter stays where he is.
Blackadder was more than fine. So he'll start again.One of Cane or Paps will be on the bench.
Savea needs a much better performance or very serious questions will be asked.
Yeah, I'd go with a 6-2 bench. Jacobson (or Savea) to come on with 20 to go.Most importantly, we are still going to play our game plan because we have the skilful players to play at pace. We're not the international team that have lost our only world-class player to the Jacksonville Jaguars practice squad.
And yet we both lost to SA
@MiketheSnow The All Blacks lost their last two games to SA by a combined total of five points or Wayne Barnes not seeing a dropped scrum bind and the TMO missing a Bongi knock on.
Wales lost their last two games to South Africa by a combined total of 64 points and I had to get out a calculator to do the Maths.
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Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
@Boston-Boy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
BB at 13 Fuck no that is bat shit crazy.
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@Boston-Boy said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Here’s a crazy idea, how would Beaudy go at 13 next to Jordie Barret? There would be chemistry, a lack of muscle perhaps but would it be made up with finesse? Then you could have Will Jordan at the back.
BB at 13 Fuck no that is bat shit crazy.
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@Chris I remember suggesting that the coaches try BB at 13 back in 2016, but it's far too late in his career to make the move to midfield.
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@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Chris I remember suggesting that the coaches try BB at 13 back in 2016, but it's far too late in his career to make the move to midfield.
yeah 8 years to late for that.
@Chris said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Chris I remember suggesting that the coaches try BB at 13 back in 2016, but it's far too late in his career to make the move to midfield.
yeah 8 years to late for that.
You would have thought the logical time would have been when the cartel were toying with the double pivot. Why not have dual playmakers at 10 and 12 (DC played at 12 a few times early in his career), rather than 10 and 15? Lots of teams have done it. Giteau at 12 springs to mind (Nonu loved that in 2015...)
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@Chris said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Chris I remember suggesting that the coaches try BB at 13 back in 2016, but it's far too late in his career to make the move to midfield.
yeah 8 years to late for that.
You would have thought the logical time would have been when the cartel were toying with the double pivot. Why not have dual playmakers at 10 and 12 (DC played at 12 a few times early in his career), rather than 10 and 15? Lots of teams have done it. Giteau at 12 springs to mind (Nonu loved that in 2015...)
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Chris said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Chris I remember suggesting that the coaches try BB at 13 back in 2016, but it's far too late in his career to make the move to midfield.
yeah 8 years to late for that.
You would have thought the logical time would have been when the cartel were toying with the double pivot. Why not have dual playmakers are 10 and 12 (DC played at 12 a few times early in his career), rather than 10 and 15? Lots of teams have done it. Giteau at 12 springs to mind (Nonu loved that in 2015...)
you are probably right there if you wanted to try that out..
