All Blacks vs Wallabies 2
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
This thread is just a hive of negativity and frankly quite boring to read.
I'll offer some positivity: I hope Sam and TJ have storming games. Cane for his milestone and TJ because it's his last, at home in front of family and friends.
On TJ; at his best he's a phenomenal rugby player and to come back from his injury is a testament to his drive and professionalism. I hope on Saturday he winds back the years and has a test to remember.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
This thread is just a hive of negativity and frankly quite boring to read.
I'll offer some positivity: I hope Sam and TJ have storming games. Cane for his milestone and TJ because it's his last, at home in front of family and friends.
On TJ; at his best he's a phenomenal rugby player and to come back from his injury is a testament to his drive and professionalism. I hope on Saturday he winds back the years and has a test to remember.
Have to say even though I don't think they should be starting based on form, seeing TJ and Beaudy start together again in Wellington is awesome, especially considering it's TJ's last test in NZ, and potentially last test for the ABs.
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
In backs makes sense to give Beaudy a run at 10. Maximise by TJS at 9 in CakeTin.
really interested in your thinking on this.
For me, it's play DMac every game unless you're managing minutes. He's very much developing as a Test 10, but is the best we've got. BB is 130 tests deep and you know what he brings (tuck the ball, run into contact). He's a known quantity.
I just don't understand the dropping of DMac after all the good things he's created it appears he's being disciplined for not finishing off chances. Which I struggle with I guess.
DMac > Mo'unga at Test level. So play him, commit to him, and get the best out of him.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
In backs makes sense to give Beaudy a run at 10. Maximise by TJS at 9 in CakeTin.
really interested in your thinking on this.
For me, it's play DMac every game unless you're managing minutes. He's very much developing as a Test 10, but is the best we've got. BB is 130 tests deep and you know what he brings (tuck the ball, run into contact). He's a known quantity.
I just don't understand the dropping of DMac after all the good things he's created it appears he's being disciplined for not finishing off chances. Which I struggle with I guess.
DMac > Mo'unga at Test level. So play him, commit to him, and get the best out of him.
I suppose the logic is if McKenzie goes down in the opening minutes against England (or before the match starts), you don't want Barrett shifting to 10 with next to no minutes against a half-decent side since the League One season ended, which is the current situation.
Barrett could start against Japan but arguably they're not half-decent opposition - and McKenzie probably needs some minutes in that match too otherwise he'd be going a month without any game time following the Bledisloe.
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If you put yourself in the shoes of Razor it make sense to at least try your 'other' first five in one match.
Personally I think it will only serve to confirm DMac's primacy. He's actually seen AB backs create lots of opportunities. -
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
This thread is just a hive of negativity and frankly quite boring to read. I’ll limit my comments to congratulating cane on reaching 100 tests. Thought it was all over after the RWC but it’s been a decent enough return. Certainly not the reason we keep fading with 20 to go.
I've been posting here for 20+ years and the sky has pretty much forever been falling. Usually it's a lot more Chicken Little than James Bond!
I did have to check the Competitions section recently to see that no-one was running a comp on the most negative spin possible (and the hottest and wildest take).
Here's positive spin for you.
Razor's lost two games to the World Champions (in their den) and once to the losing RWC semi-finalists. He must burn in hell!
The Master-Coach Rassie has lost to the same losing semi-finalist and a losing quarter-finalist. Bow down!!!
@Chris-B It's not so much the losses as the issues around them. The brainless rugby, inability to cope with pressure, ill discipline.
Given Razor was being pumped up big time by the media and a large contingent of fans the reluctance to implement change is massively disappointing.
The only really unexpected results were Arg1 and last weekend, but they were dire, and we were lulled into believing they would be a thing of the past. Also, if you are talking fine margins, it does swing both ways. We could be looking at a season record to date of W3 L5.
Personally, I find the constant campaigning to select overseas based players and effectively getting his excuses in early (before he even started in the role) a massive irritant. I don't want an AB coach to be a whingeing baitch.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
This thread is just a hive of negativity and frankly quite boring to read. I’ll limit my comments to congratulating cane on reaching 100 tests. Thought it was all over after the RWC but it’s been a decent enough return. Certainly not the reason we keep fading with 20 to go.
I've been posting here for 20+ years and the sky has pretty much forever been falling. Usually it's a lot more Chicken Little than James Bond!
I did have to check the Competitions section recently to see that no-one was running a comp on the most negative spin possible (and the hottest and wildest take).
Here's positive spin for you.
Razor's lost two games to the World Champions (in their den) and once to the losing RWC semi-finalists. He must burn in hell!
The Master-Coach Rassie has lost to the same losing semi-finalist and a losing quarter-finalist. Bow down!!!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
This thread is just a hive of negativity and frankly quite boring to read. I’ll limit my comments to congratulating cane on reaching 100 tests. Thought it was all over after the RWC but it’s been a decent enough return. Certainly not the reason we keep fading with 20 to go.
I've been posting here for 20+ years and the sky has pretty much forever been falling. Usually it's a lot more Chicken Little than James Bond!
I did have to check the Competitions section recently to see that no-one was running a comp on the most negative spin possible (and the hottest and wildest take).
Here's positive spin for you.
Razor's lost two games to the World Champions (in their den) and once to the losing RWC semi-finalists. He must burn in hell!
The Master-Coach Rassie has lost to the same losing semi-finalist and a losing quarter-finalist. Bow down!!!
You and your so called "facts". 20 years and not banned? How'd you manage that?
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If the logic is to give Barrett some time in case he has to cover an injury, then I can understand that. Or at least I could understand it if things had been going well and combinations had clicked.
If it is a reaction to McKenzie being involved in not finishing off chances, then that would be terrible - see Rassie starting Libbok again this week.
Given Robertson's 'always planned' comments it's only fair to assume the former, and therefore the criticism is a lack of ability to change plans depending on circumstances. We haven't clicked yet, and we have a limited number of games to sort that out - so giving our injury contingency plan a try is nowhere near as important as sorting out plan A. -
Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
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Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
Was it roadkill?
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If the logic is to give Barrett some time in case he has to cover an injury, then I can understand that. Or at least I could understand it if things had been going well and combinations had clicked.
If it is a reaction to McKenzie being involved in not finishing off chances, then that would be terrible - see Rassie starting Libbok again this week.
Given Robertson's 'always planned' comments it's only fair to assume the former, and therefore the criticism is a lack of ability to change plans depending on circumstances. We haven't clicked yet, and we have a limited number of games to sort that out - so giving our injury contingency plan a try is nowhere near as important as sorting out plan A.@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
If the logic is to give Barrett some time in case he has to cover an injury, then I can understand that. Or at least I could understand it if things had been going well and combinations had clicked.
I'm okay with the reasoning. He's just picked the wrong player
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
Was it roadkill?
@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
Was it roadkill?
Nah it was standing at the edge of the road as I drove towards it and hopped away into the bush as I got close .
No idea what that means
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@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
Was it roadkill?
Nah it was standing at the edge of the road as I drove towards it and hopped away into the bush as I got close .
No idea what that means
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
Was it roadkill?
Nah it was standing at the edge of the road as I drove towards it and hopped away into the bush as I got close .
No idea what that means
Only a 25 point win instead of 35?
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
Was it roadkill?
Nah it was standing at the edge of the road as I drove towards it and hopped away into the bush as I got close .
No idea what that means
Only a 25 point win instead of 35?
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Not sure if it’s omen or not but I saw a real wallaby this morning
Was it roadkill?
Nah it was standing at the edge of the road as I drove towards it and hopped away into the bush as I got close .
No idea what that means
Only a 25 point win instead of 35?
At this stage mate, as long as we finish the game with one point more than your lot, we should count ourselves fortunate
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@Chris-B It's not so much the losses as the issues around them. The brainless rugby, inability to cope with pressure, ill discipline.
Given Razor was being pumped up big time by the media and a large contingent of fans the reluctance to implement change is massively disappointing.
The only really unexpected results were Arg1 and last weekend, but they were dire, and we were lulled into believing they would be a thing of the past. Also, if you are talking fine margins, it does swing both ways. We could be looking at a season record to date of W3 L5.
Personally, I find the constant campaigning to select overseas based players and effectively getting his excuses in early (before he even started in the role) a massive irritant. I don't want an AB coach to be a whingeing baitch.
@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Chris-B It's not so much the losses as the issues around them. The brainless rugby, inability to cope with pressure, ill discipline.
Given Razor was being pumped up big time by the media and a large contingent of fans the reluctance to implement change is massively disappointing.
The only really unexpected results were Arg1 and last weekend, but they were dire, and we were lulled into believing they would be a thing of the past. Also, if you are talking fine margins, it does swing both ways. We could be looking at a season record to date of W3 L5.
Personally, I find the constant campaigning to select overseas based players and effectively getting his excuses in early (before he even started in the role) a massive irritant. I don't want an AB coach to be a whingeing baitch.
I guess it's hard to change the habits of a lifetime (brainlessness, etc).
I guess I'm a bit less of a believer in giving the kids the keys to the limo. Some take to it like ducks to water, but there's always been plenty who need time and are best off being introduced into very soft landings. Too many kids when the shit is hitting the fan and they're looking at each other without a plan (e.g. RWC 2007, 2019). But, you could always try practicing what you preach and go into work on Monday and promote your new graduates into senior management positions (because of their energy and exciting new ideas) and set your senior managers to work doing the filing. It didn't work out that well for Eddie Jones!
Aside from which - compared with the team that played the RWC Final (which, with a bit of quibbling, most sane people thought was pretty much our best), we've made 14 changes to the 23 (a couple of which are positional). That's quite a bit of change 7 tests later.
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@Chris-B It's not so much the losses as the issues around them. The brainless rugby, inability to cope with pressure, ill discipline.
Given Razor was being pumped up big time by the media and a large contingent of fans the reluctance to implement change is massively disappointing.
The only really unexpected results were Arg1 and last weekend, but they were dire, and we were lulled into believing they would be a thing of the past. Also, if you are talking fine margins, it does swing both ways. We could be looking at a season record to date of W3 L5.
Personally, I find the constant campaigning to select overseas based players and effectively getting his excuses in early (before he even started in the role) a massive irritant. I don't want an AB coach to be a whingeing baitch.
@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Chris-B
The only really unexpected results were Arg1 and last weekend, but they were dire, and we were lulled into believing they would be a thing of the past. Also, if you are talking fine margins, it does swing both ways. We could be looking at a season record to date of W3 L5.I guess it was always going to be interesting to see whether Razor would turn out to be a miracle worker. I kind of suspected he wouldn't be, because: (a) I wasn't in the camp who thought Fozzie was a total moron; (b) we're in something of a re-building phase; and (c) the sort of soft team-building skills that are marketed as his greatest attribute aren't going to take hold overnight.
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Chris-B It's not so much the losses as the issues around them. The brainless rugby, inability to cope with pressure, ill discipline.
Given Razor was being pumped up big time by the media and a large contingent of fans the reluctance to implement change is massively disappointing.
The only really unexpected results were Arg1 and last weekend, but they were dire, and we were lulled into believing they would be a thing of the past. Also, if you are talking fine margins, it does swing both ways. We could be looking at a season record to date of W3 L5.
Personally, I find the constant campaigning to select overseas based players and effectively getting his excuses in early (before he even started in the role) a massive irritant. I don't want an AB coach to be a whingeing baitch.
I guess it's hard to change the habits of a lifetime (brainlessness, etc).
I guess I'm a bit less of a believer in giving the kids the keys to the limo. Some take to it like ducks to water, but there's always been plenty who need time and are best off being introduced into very soft landings. Too many kids when the shit is hitting the fan and they're looking at each other without a plan (e.g. RWC 2007, 2019). But, you could always try practicing what you preach and go into work on Monday and promote your new graduates into senior management positions (because of their energy and exciting new ideas) and set your senior managers to work doing the filing. It didn't work out that well for Eddie Jones!
Aside from which - compared with the team that played the RWC Final (which, with a bit of quibbling, most sane people thought was pretty much our best), we've made 14 changes to the 23 (a couple of which are positional). That's quite a bit of change 7 tests later.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Aside from which - compared with the team that played the RWC Final (which, with a bit of quibbling, most sane people thought was pretty much our best), we've made 14 changes to the 23 (a couple of which are positional). That's quite a bit of change 7 tests later.
wait on, i know you're playing the straight guy here, but that is hugely overdoing it
if you take their current "top" side as evidenced by the week to week selections the teams are almost identical except where the player from 2023 left.
A change at left wing.
A change at bench halfback
A change at bench loose forward.
The 2nd back reserve has been a rotating name, so you could call that a change too.Otherwise it's changes for Mo'unga, Smith, Frizzell, Retallic, Whitelock and Laulala.
And given the extensive chat from the coaches, you would imagine that two of those guys would be in if they were allowed.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
Aside from which - compared with the team that played the RWC Final (which, with a bit of quibbling, most sane people thought was pretty much our best), we've made 14 changes to the 23 (a couple of which are positional). That's quite a bit of change 7 tests later.
wait on, i know you're playing the straight guy here, but that is hugely overdoing it
if you take their current "top" side as evidenced by the week to week selections the teams are almost identical except where the player from 2023 left.
A change at left wing.
A change at bench halfback
A change at bench loose forward.
The 2nd back reserve has been a rotating name, so you could call that a change too.Otherwise it's changes for Mo'unga, Smith, Frizzell, Retallic, Whitelock and Laulala.
And given the extensive chat from the coaches, you would imagine that two of those guys would be in if they were allowed.
@mariner4life I've miscounted - it's 13 changes - right wing is new, and Jordan has shifted to fullback. Aumua is the bench hooker.
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If we win this one I think most people will be happy heading to the EOYT.
We only just lost to a good SA side.
The only bad loss being Argentina I
I'm frustrated Proctor and Love haven't had more game time. The backline could certainly do with some more attacking options.
Hopefully we can find a quick 7. Lakai EOYT ? -
If we win this one I think most people will be happy heading to the EOYT.
We only just lost to a good SA side.
The only bad loss being Argentina I
I'm frustrated Proctor and Love haven't had more game time. The backline could certainly do with some more attacking options.
Hopefully we can find a quick 7. Lakai EOYT ?@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
If we win this one I think most people will be happy heading to the EOYT.
We only just lost to a good SA side.
The only bad loss being Argentina I
I'm frustrated Proctor and Love haven't had more game time. The backline could certainly do with some more attacking options.
Hopefully we can find a quick 7. Lakai EOYT ?Then I'm in the minority.
The results are only OK - they really should have won one of those games in SA.
Our attack (early) looks good but we can't finish games strongly. The lack of points in the last 30 - as a pattern - is a huge concern.
That has to be addressed or we are going to get run over by teams.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
If we win this one I think most people will be happy heading to the EOYT.
We only just lost to a good SA side.
The only bad loss being Argentina I
I'm frustrated Proctor and Love haven't had more game time. The backline could certainly do with some more attacking options.
Hopefully we can find a quick 7. Lakai EOYT ?Then I'm in the minority.
The results are only OK - they really should have won one of those games in SA.
Our attack (early) looks good but we can't finish games strongly. The lack of points in the last 30 - as a pattern - is a huge concern.
That has to be addressed or we are going to get run over by teams.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
If we win this one I think most people will be happy heading to the EOYT.
We only just lost to a good SA side.
The only bad loss being Argentina I
I'm frustrated Proctor and Love haven't had more game time. The backline could certainly do with some more attacking options.
Hopefully we can find a quick 7. Lakai EOYT ?Then I'm in the minority.
The results are only OK - they really should have won one of those games in SA.
Our attack (early) looks good but we can't finish games strongly. The lack of points in the last 30 - as a pattern - is a huge concern.
That has to be addressed or we are going to get run over by teams.
#metoo. It's been a shit show with once again injury being our best selector. 50-0 in the last 20 is unacceptable. Razor had a ton of goodwill, he should've used it to grow the future, losses would be accepted. Instead we have cane, undropable Ardie, TJ, BB at ten, havili, and some of SR best players left right out
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
If we win this one I think most people will be happy heading to the EOYT.
We only just lost to a good SA side.
The only bad loss being Argentina I
I'm frustrated Proctor and Love haven't had more game time. The backline could certainly do with some more attacking options.
Hopefully we can find a quick 7. Lakai EOYT ?Then I'm in the minority.
The results are only OK - they really should have won one of those games in SA.
Our attack (early) looks good but we can't finish games strongly. The lack of points in the last 30 - as a pattern - is a huge concern.
That has to be addressed or we are going to get run over by teams.
@gt12 The last 20 minutes disappointing, no doubt.
On the other hand against a good SA side players like Williams, Vaai, Sititi, Ratima did real well, even exceeded expectations.
In hindsight perhaps even more new players like Perofeta, Love, Proctor, Sotutu should have been tested.
Certainly Caketin 2 feels like a senior send off
