All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham
-
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Just saw the ABs IV game. How good is that jersey??? Much better than the ABs.
I'd be asking where the other XI were.
@Bones said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Just saw the ABs IV game. How good is that jersey??? Much better than the ABs.
I'd be asking where the other XI were.
-
The problem with this whole "Reiko never puts anyone in to space" argument is that he is also never given the ball with any sort of time.
He was given it today once I can remember and he immediately gave it to Sititi, backed up and hit the ruck (we lost the ball because the rest of.pur loose forwards were again MIA).
If he was hungasing the ball and constantly blowing overlaps this argument would hold a lot more water. But he gets shit ball too because our pattern is both midfielders playing narrow flat and straight
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
The problem with this whole "Reiko never puts anyone in to space" argument is that he is also never given the ball with any sort of time.
He was given it today once I can remember and he immediately gave it to Sititi, backed up and hit the ruck (we lost the ball because the rest of.pur loose forwards were again MIA).
If he was hungasing the ball and constantly blowing overlaps this argument would hold a lot more water. But he gets shit ball too because our pattern is both midfielders playing narrow flat and straight
I have noticed since SA 1 that they have been using both Jordie and Rieko very narrow to try to suck in defenders. It is quite effective at doing that, but it's not a great use of Rieko's talents. Ideally we'd want him a bit wider looking for mismatches. If only we had someone like Nonu inside him...
-
How many accounts to some users have on here, it seems some have multiple why I do not understand.
To back up their own posts maybe upvoting their own stuff. -
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
How many accounts to some users have on here, it seems some have multiple why I do not understand.
To back up their own posts maybe upvoting their own stuff.Maybe a few people agree with each other?
@booboo said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
How many accounts to some users have on here, it seems some have multiple why I do not understand.
To back up their own posts maybe upvoting their own stuff.Maybe a few people agree with each other?
A lot of new profiles seem to pop up to agree.
-
@booboo said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
How many accounts to some users have on here, it seems some have multiple why I do not understand.
To back up their own posts maybe upvoting their own stuff.Maybe a few people agree with each other?
A lot of new profiles seem to pop up to agree.
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@booboo said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
How many accounts to some users have on here, it seems some have multiple why I do not understand.
To back up their own posts maybe upvoting their own stuff.Maybe a few people agree with each other?
A lot of new profiles seem to pop up to agree.
I think I pointed that out a few weeks back with all the new Cantab accounts
. -
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@booboo said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
How many accounts to some users have on here, it seems some have multiple why I do not understand.
To back up their own posts maybe upvoting their own stuff.Maybe a few people agree with each other?
A lot of new profiles seem to pop up to agree.
I think I pointed that out a few weeks back with all the new Cantab accounts
.@Nepia said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@booboo said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Chris said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
How many accounts to some users have on here, it seems some have multiple why I do not understand.
To back up their own posts maybe upvoting their own stuff.Maybe a few people agree with each other?
A lot of new profiles seem to pop up to agree.
I think I pointed that out a few weeks back with all the new Cantab accounts
.Haha more like chiefs accounts
-
lol what? there are like 8 chiefs fans on this entire sub (well, 9 if you count bandwagon jumping Nepia).
-
lol what? there are like 8 chiefs fans on this entire sub (well, 9 if you count bandwagon jumping Nepia).
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
lol what? there are like 8 chiefs fans on this entire sub (well, 9 if you count bandwagon jumping Nepia).
Joke reply back mate settle.
-
-
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
On that I'll disciplined PoS display, Ireland sand France will chew us up and spit us out. But hopefully we've learnt...
... Yeah rightI dunno. Discipline was utter shite and arguably the worst this year, but that was a huge improvement in the last 40 minutes compared to recent crap served up - we didn't actually go completely to pieces and played really well for at least 10-15 minutes.
#slight sarcasm alert#
Back handed compliments. The bar is so low for the ABs right now....
Our lineout is crap, leadership is crap, composure is crap, discipline is crap, inside backs crap
Still cant wait for the next game. Bring it on.Definitely a work in progress. I am hoping for a signature win to turn the corner and get an era going.
That's one of two important questions.
(1) When's it going to click, Razor; and
(2) Even when it does, how replicable is it going to be?So we're playing this up-tempo, frenetic style that when we string a few miracle passes together and have the right guys on the end of them, other teams aren't going to live with it.
We're going to score some sexy tries and when we score them in multiples, we likely going to blow someone off the park.
I'm hoping it's going to click next weekend, because I've got a feeling it will need to.
But, this week's error-ridden performance doesn't fill me with confidence. Just about everyone made an error. Most of them made two or three. Some of them made half a dozen. That's got to add up to 50+ errors. A hell of a lot of work-ons to improve this week.
But, I wonder whether this gameplan is confusing ambition with ability. If you've only half a dozen guys who are actually skilled enough to cope with the gameplan, pretty quickly the ball is going to find a guy who's going to throw or drop a shit pass.
And to me, that looks a bit like what's happening at the moment.
Even when we do have a game where the passes stick and we all go "Wow", are we going to be able to back it up next week, and the next? Seems like quite a bit of improvement in ball skills required for just about everyone.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Even when we do have a game where the passes stick and we all go "Wow", are we going to be able to back it up next week, and the next? Seems like quite a bit of improvement in ball skills required for just about everyone.
It’s possible but it will take time. Something that is difficult to bide in pro sports.
Post 2007 RWC and into that 2011-15 phase we played an up tempo style that put ball playing demands on some of our forwards that hadn’t been there. We had tight forwards standing at 1st receiver after rucks that were making delayed passes to a second wave. Hell even Owen Franks was doing it and I recall when he started as an AB he had average catching and passing skills.
-
Try, and penalty against Maro, lucky it didn't connect with telea's head
A player must not attempt to kick the ball from the hands of the ball-carrier.
https://cdn4.theroar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Mark-Telea.jpg@Machpants said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Try, and penalty against Maro, lucky it didn't connect with telea's head
A player must not attempt to kick the ball from the hands of the ball-carrier.
https://cdn4.theroar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Mark-Telea.jpgThat's a penalty try if he collects him there.
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Even when we do have a game where the passes stick and we all go "Wow", are we going to be able to back it up next week, and the next? Seems like quite a bit of improvement in ball skills required for just about everyone.
It’s possible but it will take time. Something that is difficult to bide in pro sports.
Post 2007 RWC and into that 2011-15 phase we played an up tempo style that put ball playing demands on some of our forwards that hadn’t been there. We had tight forwards standing at 1st receiver after rucks that were making delayed passes to a second wave. Hell even Owen Franks was doing it and I recall when he started as an AB he had average catching and passing skills.
@ACT-Crusader Yes - that's true. And the rest of the world was bemoaning how we'd stolen a march and they couldn't compete with our ball playing props - but, then we came back to the pack and maybe fell behind.
So maybe I should applaud the ambition and trust we'll get there.
In the meantime, I guess we just need enough passes to stick to continue to win by a point or two.
But, it looks like taking some time to be pretty!
-
Ball playing tight forwards isn't the point of difference it was 12 years ago. Everyone unskilled.
-
Ball playing tight forwards isn't the point of difference it was 12 years ago. Everyone unskilled.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Ball playing tight forwards isn't the point of difference it was 12 years ago. Everyone up-skilled.
iPhone I assume. My fix
But, yep that’s not a point of difference. I feel like this score off every phase idea is a terrible way to develop game drivers. I love me some Wayne Smith but that quite WTF. -
@Machpants said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Try, and penalty against Maro, lucky it didn't connect with telea's head
A player must not attempt to kick the ball from the hands of the ball-carrier.
https://cdn4.theroar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Mark-Telea.jpgThat's a penalty try if he collects him there.
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
Try, and penalty against Maro, lucky it didn't connect with telea's head
A player must not attempt to kick the ball from the hands of the ball-carrier.
https://cdn4.theroar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/Mark-Telea.jpgThat's a penalty try if he collects him there.
In the last 10 or so, he basically got away with murder at the breakdown near their line as well. A real competitor but were was Gardner with all this offending?
-
@mencey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
We have 3 years to get this right.
Sorry but that attitude is a big part of what is wrong with NZ Rugby. We have 6 days to get this right.
Winning 80+% of all our tests, not folding like overcooked pasta and living up to the legacy of 125 years of AB dominance are way more important than a tournament every four years.
@dogmeat said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
@mencey said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
We have 3 years to get this right.
Sorry but that attitude is a big part of what is wrong with NZ Rugby. We have 6 days to get this right.
Winning 80+% of all our tests, not folding like overcooked pasta and living up to the legacy of 125 years of AB dominance are way more important than a tournament every four years.
Yep agree. Just mean that I always want us to win the world cup as well as all other tests.
-
@Jet said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I need to find a woman who loves me as much as Beauden Barrett loves kicking the ball away.
It might be quicker to just find a woman who loves kicking your balls away.
-
I know there’s a lot of criticism on this forum towards the incessant turn to kicking by Barrett in this game, but, rewatching the game, I’d argue that the kick-option was the right choice a lot of the time, but it was Barrett’s mixed execution of his kicks which led to mixed outcomes. Charlie Morgan of The Telegraph already highlighted this example around the first minute of the game. Barrett, following an over the top lineout win by Savea, receives the pass around the halfway line and puts up a great wipers kick. The kick is regathered by Telea, who offloads to Ioane, leading to a linebreak and the England defence in disarray. Several Abs have realigned to the openside and this is the picture:
Caleb Clarke, who is out of frame here, is the target for the cross kick. Taylor and Savea are on his inside with only George Furbank covering the English backfield (Marcus Smith is all the way on the opposite side, with 14 English players being bunched up within 20 metres from each other).
What saves England is Itoje’s chargedown of Barrett’s kick, with Barrett probably needing to be just a little bit further back in order to avoid the oncoming rush defence.
Something very similar occurred early in the second half, where the kick option was the right call, only for the execution to fall just short. After Sititi rips out the ball and bats the ball back to Barrett around the 10-metre line, the latter passes to Clarke who breaks through the English defensive line. Following (another) great carry from Tuipulotu, Barrett has called for a kick, with multiple runners (Jordan, Jordie Barrett, Ioane, Telea) preparing to rush:
The kick is the best option here, as the defensive line is solidly set, yet only Marcus Smith (outside the frame) is covering the backfield, with Furbank up in the line. Barrett’s choice of kick, however, the grubber, is the wrong one, as there is very little space between the England defenders and they already know that a kick is coming following the body positioning of the Kiwi backs. The right choice, I’d argue, would be the short chip kick into the space between the English defensive line and Marcus Smith, allowing for either one of the All Black backs to regather or pressuring Smith as well as the potential counterruck. Again, Barrett needs to start just a few metres further back, rather than be so close to the line, in order to execute this option.
One of a first five-eights’ most important skills is their ability to orchestrate the space between his own outside backs and the opposition defenders. Taking a few extra steps forward in order to play flat and manipulate the speed of the defensive line against itself, or taking a few back in order to exploit the space behind, the first five’s orchestration of space through his own subtle movement is the key to a successful attack. Barrett has a great array of kicks at his disposal, but what he often still lacks is his feel for the defensive line. A bit more detail around his own positioning, and the ABs’ attack could’ve been a lot more efficient at Twickenham.
-
I know there’s a lot of criticism on this forum towards the incessant turn to kicking by Barrett in this game, but, rewatching the game, I’d argue that the kick-option was the right choice a lot of the time, but it was Barrett’s mixed execution of his kicks which led to mixed outcomes. Charlie Morgan of The Telegraph already highlighted this example around the first minute of the game. Barrett, following an over the top lineout win by Savea, receives the pass around the halfway line and puts up a great wipers kick. The kick is regathered by Telea, who offloads to Ioane, leading to a linebreak and the England defence in disarray. Several Abs have realigned to the openside and this is the picture:
Caleb Clarke, who is out of frame here, is the target for the cross kick. Taylor and Savea are on his inside with only George Furbank covering the English backfield (Marcus Smith is all the way on the opposite side, with 14 English players being bunched up within 20 metres from each other).
What saves England is Itoje’s chargedown of Barrett’s kick, with Barrett probably needing to be just a little bit further back in order to avoid the oncoming rush defence.
Something very similar occurred early in the second half, where the kick option was the right call, only for the execution to fall just short. After Sititi rips out the ball and bats the ball back to Barrett around the 10-metre line, the latter passes to Clarke who breaks through the English defensive line. Following (another) great carry from Tuipulotu, Barrett has called for a kick, with multiple runners (Jordan, Jordie Barrett, Ioane, Telea) preparing to rush:
The kick is the best option here, as the defensive line is solidly set, yet only Marcus Smith (outside the frame) is covering the backfield, with Furbank up in the line. Barrett’s choice of kick, however, the grubber, is the wrong one, as there is very little space between the England defenders and they already know that a kick is coming following the body positioning of the Kiwi backs. The right choice, I’d argue, would be the short chip kick into the space between the English defensive line and Marcus Smith, allowing for either one of the All Black backs to regather or pressuring Smith as well as the potential counterruck. Again, Barrett needs to start just a few metres further back, rather than be so close to the line, in order to execute this option.
One of a first five-eights’ most important skills is their ability to orchestrate the space between his own outside backs and the opposition defenders. Taking a few extra steps forward in order to play flat and manipulate the speed of the defensive line against itself, or taking a few back in order to exploit the space behind, the first five’s orchestration of space through his own subtle movement is the key to a successful attack. Barrett has a great array of kicks at his disposal, but what he often still lacks is his feel for the defensive line. A bit more detail around his own positioning, and the ABs’ attack could’ve been a lot more efficient at Twickenham.
@Mauss said in All Blacks Vs England, Twickenham:
I know there’s a lot of criticism on this forum towards the incessant turn to kicking by Barrett in this game, but, rewatching the game, I’d argue that the kick-option was the right choice a lot of the time, but it was Barrett’s mixed execution of his kicks which led to mixed outcomes. Charlie Morgan of The Telegraph already highlighted this example around the first minute of the game. Barrett, following an over the top lineout win by Savea, receives the pass around the halfway line and puts up a great wipers kick. The kick is regathered by Telea, who offloads to Ioane, leading to a linebreak and the England defence in disarray. Several Abs have realigned to the openside and this is the picture:
Caleb Clarke, who is out of frame here, is the target for the cross kick. Taylor and Savea are on his inside with only George Furbank covering the English backfield (Marcus Smith is all the way on the opposite side, with 14 English players being bunched up within 20 metres from each other).
What saves England is Itoje’s chargedown of Barrett’s kick, with Barrett probably needing to be just a little bit further back in order to avoid the oncoming rush defence.
Something very similar occurred early in the second half, where the kick option was the right call, only for the execution to fall just short. After Sititi rips out the ball and bats the ball back to Barrett around the 10-metre line, the latter passes to Clarke who breaks through the English defensive line. Following (another) great carry from Tuipulotu, Barrett has called for a kick, with multiple runners (Jordan, Jordie Barrett, Ioane, Telea) preparing to rush:
The kick is the best option here, as the defensive line is solidly set, yet only Marcus Smith (outside the frame) is covering the backfield, with Furbank up in the line. Barrett’s choice of kick, however, the grubber, is the wrong one, as there is very little space between the England defenders and they already know that a kick is coming following the body positioning of the Kiwi backs. The right choice, I’d argue, would be the short chip kick into the space between the English defensive line and Marcus Smith, allowing for either one of the All Black backs to regather or pressuring Smith as well as the potential counterruck. Again, Barrett needs to start just a few metres further back, rather than be so close to the line, in order to execute this option.
One of a first five-eights’ most important skills is their ability to orchestrate the space between his own outside backs and the opposition defenders. Taking a few extra steps forward in order to play flat and manipulate the speed of the defensive line against itself, or taking a few back in order to exploit the space behind, the first five’s orchestration of space through his own subtle movement is the key to a successful attack. Barrett has a great array of kicks at his disposal, but what he often still lacks is his feel for the defensive line. A bit more detail around his own positioning, and the ABs’ attack could’ve been a lot more efficient at Twickenham.
A well-reasoned insight, thank you!
