All Blacks 2025
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Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
@canefan not necessarily, I think if there are players 'incapable' of playing the patterns you need, then they dont fit...that said, I think most players are more than capable of playing varying styles, and when you have some players with an array of talents, you need to fit them...hell, look at Ardie, absolute star, yet has affected the balance of our loose trio for years, but they made it work for th emost part.
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@canefan not necessarily, I think if there are players 'incapable' of playing the patterns you need, then they dont fit...that said, I think most players are more than capable of playing varying styles, and when you have some players with an array of talents, you need to fit them...hell, look at Ardie, absolute star, yet has affected the balance of our loose trio for years, but they made it work for th emost part.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan not necessarily, I think if there are players 'incapable' of playing the patterns you need, then they dont fit...that said, I think most players are more than capable of playing varying styles, and when you have some players with an array of talents, you need to fit them...hell, look at Ardie, absolute star, yet has affected the balance of our loose trio for years, but they made it work for th emost part.
For me it's about exploiting the various talents of players. As you suggest, these guys have a capacity to adapt. The coaches should too
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Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Playing their part to weaken the Blues
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Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
The reasons given for Sotutu were frankly rubbish. Ryan just didn't like him and I also suspect there was an element of bias due to the past losses against the Crusaders in finals.
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Not buying the criticisms of Scott Barrett.
He was the best lock we had in 2023, being seen as more valuable than Whitelock and Retallick.
I am confident he will produce good form for the ABs this year.@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
Not buying the criticisms of Scott Barrett.
He was the best lock we had in 2023, being seen as more valuable than Whitelock and Retallick.
I am confident he will produce good form for the ABs this year.The criticisms are hardly harsh - he's a really good player in just about every facet, but he's not really a world class lineout target / attacker of opposition ball. We also don't have great lineout loosies at present, which increases the emphasis on our locks' lineout work.
He also wasn't as good last year as he was in 2023, whereas Vaai improved a lot in 2024, and Holland has been eye-catching in 2025.
There's no doubt he'll be deservedly selected, and be captain. -
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
I thought it was interesting that they went straight back to Cane after the French test last year. Apart from Williams, and Savea out wide, our forwards struggled to get over the advantage line against France and secure the breakdown at crucial times.
The French pack also made easy metres against us.
This might play into Papali'is favour but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Sotutu and Papali'i missing out.
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I thought it was interesting that they went straight back to Cane after the French test last year. Apart from Williams, and Savea out wide, our forwards struggled to get over the advantage line against France and secure the breakdown at crucial times.
The French pack also made easy metres against us.
This might play into Papali'is favour but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Sotutu and Papali'i missing out.
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@gt12 Barrett has certainly got more active in the latter half of the season. I do think that his program was a little different given what is to come later this year for the AB captain. Not too dissimilar to what I saw from McCaw and Read previously with how they built during super rugby.
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
If they go with 5 locks then add Tuipoluto and Darry to above 3.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
I think the coaches will keep the faith with Vaa’i but I would really like to see Barrett and Holland get a couple of starts together.
bro you're better than this. Vaa'i has been the premier lock at both levels for the past 12-15 months. If anything SB is the one who should be giving way.
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i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Playing their part to weaken the Blues
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Playing their part to weaken the Blues
Mate, I swear this is the underlining factor.
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i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
I suspect this is true. But it could also be true for Savea and Sotutu.
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Yeah maybe short term, but you have to weigh up the learnings Wallace could receive from either of them. And Savea won't play forever.
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i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
Yeah, I have a bit of a sinking feeling about that too. Our big brutes at 6 - which is what you need when you have a small-ish dynamic 8 - just don't seem quite of the necessary standard yet. But (assuming Sititi gets back to last year's form) you gotta try to find a way don't you? These are our guys who can do things others just can't at the top level - in your own words 'move the needle'.
If we start both Savea and Sititi, then Sotutu or Finau would improve the lineout at least. One provides a big body in close, the other a big body out wide - so I'd lean towards giving Hoskins a go as the others are most effective wider. They won't though.If we don't start Savea and Sititi then making Savea the 'captain' of our (ugh) bomb squad is one option, which gives us a leader and highly impactful player coming on - he makes big plays when it matters, so him being fresh in the last 20 would be huge given our shit record in that part of the game last year. But, I don't see us having a top class 7 other than Savea. Kirifi maybe, but him + Sititi isn't much better - he hits more rucks, but he's small. All the other guys: Dalton, Blackadder, Jacobson - very good players - but for me are small 6s in terms of output. They aren't great over the ball, they aren't great support runners, they shouldn't really be starting at 7 - and they all play so differently to Savea that your whole pattern changes for half a game. Despite the upside, I don't think it really works....
So, then Sititi becomes the bench loosie? With who to start:
Savea back to 8, with Dalton at 7 and Finau at 6? That just seems like a bit of a throwback to Cane/Savea/Frizzell which was never that great.
Or Savea to 7, Blackadder/Jacobson to 6, and who to 8... Parker? Lio-Willie? Sotutu? Not super-inspiring. -
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
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The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Think it was similar when we lost the first test to South Africa last year with him?
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The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
He's undoubtedly got all the physical attributes, but he needs to fix his decision making. You can't go giving away multiple penalties under pressure like that.
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So, then Sititi becomes the bench loosie? With who to start:
Savea back to 8, with Dalton at 7 and Finau at 6?That was the trio that started the first two tests of the season last year - which might be something of an indicator of how Razor really wants to balance his loose forwards - or it might have been that (I think) Cane and Blackadder were injured.
In any case, Finau wasn't impressive. But do they try him again and hope he'll be better this year? Or switch in Parker as an alternative big body?
It's a really hard season to pick the loosies, because we knoiw Ardie's going to be picked, but we don't know whether as a 7 or 8. And we can be pretty much certain Sititi is going to be picked, but not whether he'll be deployed at 6 or 8.
I'm inclined to think they'll pick 2x6s, 2x7s, 2x8s plus a utility guy like Jacobson.
I don't think they'll pick a whole bunch of ball-running guys who predominatly play number 8 (or play like 8s) i.e. not all of Savea, Sititi, Sotutu, Lio-Willie, Jacobson, Lakai.
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I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
