All Blacks 2025
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
The front five have gone well, Wallace Sititi is a great find and we have a lot more depth at Half Back than I'd have thought. Those are the positives.
The front 5 def. kicked on and players like Vaa'i have proved to be shrewd selections and good, long-term coaching has produced the goods.
But you have to ask if Sititi and Ratima would have been there if Blackadder and Christie hadn't been injured
@Victor-Meldrew Christie was dropped wasn't he?
Sititi, agree, continuing superb selections that injury forced in the past few years.
Seems both of these last coaching groups lacked a bit of forward thinking and were far too conservative unless the cards they were dealt forced them to be otherwise.
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So the aims for the All Blacks next year should be:
Whitewash France 3-0.
Extend the Eden park record and beat the Boks 2-0
Win TRC
Go to No.1 in the world rankings
Complete the grand slamAll very achievable games on paper.
Maybe argies away will be a potential banana skin.
As will England away.
And some random thoughts on players…
I’d like to see Samisoni back finally and somewhere back to his best and to have regular rotation between our top 3-4 hookers - Taylor doesn’t neeed to play every game, Aumua needs to build on his breakthrough end of year tour, samisoni will wanto continue his comback and re-establish himself in international rugby and Bell will need more minutes to bring him up to international standard (low priority at this stage though)
I want to see Holland establish himself in the match day 23.
Lakai and Paps to slug it out for the 7 jersey. Think Lakai is favoured right now.
Sititi with more minutes at 8 and we start to play with a big munter at 6.
Need to develop options at 12/13 - meaning more game time for Proctor and Lam/Higgins.
Who do we think will be debuting for the ABs next year?
Need to find a left winger and settle on RW/FB combination. Jordan at fullback is obviously Razors preferred position for him but WJ at RW and another player at fullback (e.g Love) might suit the team better. -
So the aims for the All Blacks next year should be:
Whitewash France 3-0.
Extend the Eden park record and beat the Boks 2-0
Win TRC
Go to No.1 in the world rankings
Complete the grand slamAll very achievable games on paper.
Maybe argies away will be a potential banana skin.
As will England away.
And some random thoughts on players…
I’d like to see Samisoni back finally and somewhere back to his best and to have regular rotation between our top 3-4 hookers - Taylor doesn’t neeed to play every game, Aumua needs to build on his breakthrough end of year tour, samisoni will wanto continue his comback and re-establish himself in international rugby and Bell will need more minutes to bring him up to international standard (low priority at this stage though)
I want to see Holland establish himself in the match day 23.
Lakai and Paps to slug it out for the 7 jersey. Think Lakai is favoured right now.
Sititi with more minutes at 8 and we start to play with a big munter at 6.
Need to develop options at 12/13 - meaning more game time for Proctor and Lam/Higgins.
Who do we think will be debuting for the ABs next year?
Need to find a left winger and settle on RW/FB combination. Jordan at fullback is obviously Razors preferred position for him but WJ at RW and another player at fullback (e.g Love) might suit the team better.@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
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@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
While not perfect, Ryan is a world class forwards coach and has World Cup experience so that puts your theory to bed.
I would be more confident if Schmidt was in charge but I see no reason why Razor and team can’t go and win a word cup in 3 years time
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
a lot effluent in their praise for them
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
a lot effluent in their praise for them
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
a lot effluent in their praise for them
Maybe it does...
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
What had Rassie and Jacques whatsiafsce achieved as international coaches before the won the World Cup in 2019?
The fact is they have created their reputation through World Cup wins. Not before.
Felix Jones is a good coach. But is now elevated to genius because the team he worked with managed to win a World Cup by 1 point when absolutely everything went their way in the final.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
I didn't mention Love in that sentence.... It was a general comment
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@Bones Can these three and others from the Saders have breakout seasons and force their way into the Abs next year?
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
I didn't mention Love in that sentence.... It was a general comment
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
I didn't mention Love in that sentence.... It was a general comment
I thought you were referring to him in your reply.
It’s a real shame he is out for half of super as I really wanted him to go up another notch with his play after being in the AB environment this year.
I think his speed and all round ability gives us a better option at 15 with WJ at 14. Will Jordan is unstoppable when put into a gap but I worry about him at 15 in a really big game like a RWC knockout match.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
What had Rassie and Jacques whatsiafsce achieved as international coaches before the won the World Cup in 2019?
The fact is they have created their reputation through World Cup wins. Not before.
Felix Jones is a good coach. But is now elevated to genius because the team he worked with managed to win a World Cup by 1 point when absolutely everything went their way in the final.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
What had Rassie and Jacques whatsiafsce achieved as international coaches before the won the World Cup in 2019?
The fact is they have created their reputation through World Cup wins. Not before.
Felix Jones is a good coach. But is now elevated to genius because the team he worked with managed to win a World Cup by 1 point when absolutely everything went their way in the final.
Wrong. Jones was also part of the group in 2019 as well, he was also invited into the Irish coaching setup by Schmidt because he had such an astute rugby brain, he was basically Ben Smith of Ireland but got too many career injuries so made the transition into coaching very early on, Schmidt rates him extremely highly, as does every player you ask.
Rassie had taken the Cheetahs to their first Currie Cup title in 26 years, a team with very modest talent, Jacques coached the Stormers to the best defense in SR and Rassie coached Munster to great success with Jacques coaching the defense again. They were highly regarded coaches before they got their SA roles - they were already considered the top coaches from their country at the time.......... Can you say the same for Holland & Ellison?
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Look at Rassie's CV before he got the job in 2018:
2004–2006 Free State Cheetahs
2006–2007 Cheetahs
2007 South Africa (Technical Adviser)
2007–2010 Western Province
2008–2011 Stormers
2011 South Africa (Technical Specialist)
2016–2017 Munster -
2008–2014 Western Province (Assistant/Defence coach)
2008–2014 Stormers (Assistant/Defence coach)
2011–2016 South Africa (Assistant coach)
2016–2017 Munster (Assistant coach)
2018–2019 South Africa (Assistant coach)
2020–2023 South Africa
2023– Leinster (Senior coach) -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
Robertson helmed 14 Tests in his 1st year and compared to Foster's first 14 Tests, it's worse. (72% win ratio compared to c. 77% for Foster).
But the fact we're even discussing this point really is the big issue, isn't it?
I'd like to see a list of those opposing teams though - I suspect we played higher-ranked teams and in their country more often.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
Robertson helmed 14 Tests in his 1st year and compared to Foster's first 14 Tests, it's worse. (72% win ratio compared to c. 77% for Foster).
But the fact we're even discussing this point really is the big issue, isn't it?
I'd like to see a list of those opposing teams though - I suspect we played higher-ranked teams and in their country more often.
QED...
