All Blacks 2025
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The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
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Not sure, didn't count. But I know he played most of season, and with MacMillan's way of using team, he likes to use his bench. But genuinely, who were the batter 6/8s than him last year is what I asked. I thought over the season, there weren't any who were better ,that missed out on ABs. That's what I meant, but you may believe there was some, and that's fine, just remind me.
Sorry Brodean just pointed out that Sititi started 8 games last year, and I believe the rest of his 13 games in super were also last year from bench.
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Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too. -
@Dan54 not that I am advocating Reihana, but have been more than a few saying he could be a bolter for a few weeks at least.
Will be interesting to see how bold Razor is this year though.
Have to think Razor had 90% of his team picked, with a couple of tight calls maybe waiting to see how the past 2 weekend matches panned out.
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@Dan54 not that I am advocating Reihana, but have been more than a few saying he could be a bolter for a few weeks at least.
Will be interesting to see how bold Razor is this year though.
Have to think Razor had 90% of his team picked, with a couple of tight calls maybe waiting to see how the past 2 weekend matches panned out.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 not that I am advocating Reihana, but have been more than a few saying he could be a bolter for a few weeks at least.
Will be interesting to see how bold Razor is this year though.
Have to think Razor had 90% of his team picked, with a couple of tight calls maybe waiting to see how the past 2 weekend matches panned out.
As I said mate, I not against him being picked, if the selectors believe he is as good or better than other options,
Just saying not just because he younger, -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 not that I am advocating Reihana, but have been more than a few saying he could be a bolter for a few weeks at least.
Will be interesting to see how bold Razor is this year though.
Have to think Razor had 90% of his team picked, with a couple of tight calls maybe waiting to see how the past 2 weekend matches panned out.
As I said mate, I not against him being picked, if the selectors believe he is as good or better than other options,
Just saying not just because he younger,@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 not that I am advocating Reihana, but have been more than a few saying he could be a bolter for a few weeks at least.
Will be interesting to see how bold Razor is this year though.
Have to think Razor had 90% of his team picked, with a couple of tight calls maybe waiting to see how the past 2 weekend matches panned out.
As I said mate, I not against him being picked, if the selectors believe he is as good or better than other options,
Just saying not just because he younger,If he's selected, it's most likely because the selectors aren't thinking though. Nothing to do with being as good or better than his opposite the last two weeks.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
I'd like to see it tried at some point. But our 10 stocks after BB and DM are not great in terms of ability (in the case of fringe players like Perofeta) and experience at SR level (Love, Reihana) right now
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
He did Love a disservice, lost the SF, and denied Razor a game or two more to see what Love was made of
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
In much the same vein as Wallace, considering our lack of quality 10 options (BB and DM best of a lean bunch), if Razor could find space to evaluate Reihana in camp and take Love, I'm on board with that
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I'm fairly amazed at all the drums beating for Carter. International back 3 needs aerial prowess. He is going to be a massive defensive liability if picked.
@steelpotato said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm fairly amazed at all the drums beating for Carter. International back 3 needs aerial prowess. He is going to be a massive defensive liability if picked.
I didn't notice many (drums or even compliments) after yesterday's game. Quite frankly he doesn't look ready at international level. He looked overawed yesterday and didn't display half the initiative of Narawa or Reece (who, admittedly looked speedier than I remembered when he last played for the ABs).
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
He did Love a disservice, lost the SF, and denied Razor a game or two more to see what Love was made of
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
He did Love a disservice, lost the SF, and denied Razor a game or two more to see what Love was made of
heh, yeah I'm sure you'd agree that the Canes should have been allowed to win through to the finals so we'd get to see more of their players!
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Not sure if there is a thread for players one expected to see more promise from this year, but my pick would be Haig-maybe he's nursing an injury or I missed his better games.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
In much the same vein as Wallace, considering our lack of quality 10 options (BB and DM best of a lean bunch), if Razor could find space to evaluate Reihana in camp and take Love, I'm on board with that
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
In much the same vein as Wallace, considering our lack of quality 10 options (BB and DM best of a lean bunch), if Razor could find space to evaluate Reihana in camp and take Love, I'm on board with that
Reihana looks to have the mental skills - very cool under pressure - which is invaluable, so def. would like the coaches to have a good look at him in camp or squad. Ditto JRK.
Maybe a year too early to win a cap, but start the development now.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Is Nanai-Seturo anywhere in the wing conversation?
I don’t think so.
