All Blacks 2025
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
He did Love a disservice, lost the SF, and denied Razor a game or two more to see what Love was made of
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
In much the same vein as Wallace, considering our lack of quality 10 options (BB and DM best of a lean bunch), if Razor could find space to evaluate Reihana in camp and take Love, I'm on board with that
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I'm fairly amazed at all the drums beating for Carter. International back 3 needs aerial prowess. He is going to be a massive defensive liability if picked.
@steelpotato said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm fairly amazed at all the drums beating for Carter. International back 3 needs aerial prowess. He is going to be a massive defensive liability if picked.
I didn't notice many (drums or even compliments) after yesterday's game. Quite frankly he doesn't look ready at international level. He looked overawed yesterday and didn't display half the initiative of Narawa or Reece (who, admittedly looked speedier than I remembered when he last played for the ABs).
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
He did Love a disservice, lost the SF, and denied Razor a game or two more to see what Love was made of
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
He did Love a disservice, lost the SF, and denied Razor a game or two more to see what Love was made of
heh, yeah I'm sure you'd agree that the Canes should have been allowed to win through to the finals so we'd get to see more of their players!
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Not sure if there is a thread for players one expected to see more promise from this year, but my pick would be Haig-maybe he's nursing an injury or I missed his better games.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
In much the same vein as Wallace, considering our lack of quality 10 options (BB and DM best of a lean bunch), if Razor could find space to evaluate Reihana in camp and take Love, I'm on board with that
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Wallace Sititi only started 8 out of 15 games last year. He's started 13 Super Rugby games his entire career. Not even a full seasons worth
Also Hoskins Sotutu was Super Rugby Player of the year and helped his team win a title. Something Sititi is yet to do.
Sititi was a player of potential with a handful of good games but he wasn't obviously the best which is why his selection was controversial in the media.
Do you think Sotutu missed out on Sititi's potential, or just because rightly or wrongly as Ryan said, they didn't think he was good enough for test rugby. Something about both sides of ball? And perhaps because Sotutu was seen as an 8 only, and Ardie was considered the one for that job. All I say is I think the AB selectors should go for young one if is as good as current ones, not saying Reihana is or isn't but I notice all the calls have come out after one pretty good game.
Same as players you mentioned, they were probably at least as good as the players they were vying for in their positions.
I will add, maybe I old fashioned, but I want us to try and win every test we play, we don't or won't but we should be trying too.Ryan never made a public comment to the effect that Sotutu wasn't good enough for test rugby. There was a comment about both sides of the ball and one about body language but that was mentioned as a criteria for selection. These were made by Razor and Hansen.
100% Sititi was picked on potential. He had only played a handful of meaningful games well. He wasn't a stand out in all those games. He improved and went from strength culminating in a great semi performance and then a quiet game in the final. He certainly had no more 'form over time' compared to Reihana.
Many players have several seasons of strong form before they are picked like Mark Tele’a which is 'form over time'. That was not Sititi.
Potential's certainly got a huge amount to do with it, as does taking a risk. Depends on the player and whether he's born to it or needs development. It's the art of coaching I guess,
Sititi's the former, Vaa'i the latter. Both are pretty much key selections.
In much the same vein as Wallace, considering our lack of quality 10 options (BB and DM best of a lean bunch), if Razor could find space to evaluate Reihana in camp and take Love, I'm on board with that
Reihana looks to have the mental skills - very cool under pressure - which is invaluable, so def. would like the coaches to have a good look at him in camp or squad. Ditto JRK.
Maybe a year too early to win a cap, but start the development now.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Is Nanai-Seturo anywhere in the wing conversation?
I don’t think so.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
Is Nanai-Seturo anywhere in the wing conversation?
Could have been if he'd not spent most of the year sidelined. Has all the tools.
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We're (arguably) looking a bit thin at wing, wonder if that suggests Ioane might be moved there.
The potential logjam at 12 (get better soon, Higgins, regardless of the logjam!) will be interesting too. -
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
Agree on the Roigard / Love combo. One of the better and balanced 9-10s in super rugby.
On the Jordie take, I’m not sure about that. The season at Leinster highlighted that Jordie’s play at 12 troubled NH defences. Barring some disaster I think he will be our 12 for the run to 2027. I was impressed.
What was clear for me from last season is that the Jordie / Ioane combo doesn’t get us going the way I think the coaches would want.
In RWC 2023 as individual players I thought both were superb and playing a more conservative and narrow game they were okay-ish. But on the face of it I think we could get a lot more with a Jordie / Proctor combination with a guy like QT being the ALB like bench option.
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@Frank The best thing about Robertson and co. is that things not leak so much in advance as they did under Hansen and Foster who clearly gave their tame, client journalists 24-48 hours extra notice of big announcements. I'm expecting a surprise or two when the squad is named.
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Liam Napier's guess. Couple of depressing choices.
Likely All Blacks squad:
Props: Ethan de Groot, Tyrel Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi, Tamaiti Williams, George Bower/Josh Fusitu’a/Ollie Norris
Hookers: Codie Taylor, Samisoni Taukei’aho, George Bell
Locks: Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa’i, Patrick Tuipulotu, Fabian Holland
Loose forwards: Ardie Savea, Wallace Sititi, Ethan Blackadder, Luke Jacobson, Du’Plessis Kirifi, Samipeni Finau
Halfbacks: Cam Roigard, Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie, Ruben Love
Midfield: Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane, Billy Proctor, David Havili, Anton Lienert-Brown
Outside backs: Caleb Clarke, Will Jordan, Sevu Reece, Leroy Carter/Chay Fihaki -
Liam Napier's guess. Couple of depressing choices.
Likely All Blacks squad:
Props: Ethan de Groot, Tyrel Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi, Tamaiti Williams, George Bower/Josh Fusitu’a/Ollie Norris
Hookers: Codie Taylor, Samisoni Taukei’aho, George Bell
Locks: Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa’i, Patrick Tuipulotu, Fabian Holland
Loose forwards: Ardie Savea, Wallace Sititi, Ethan Blackadder, Luke Jacobson, Du’Plessis Kirifi, Samipeni Finau
Halfbacks: Cam Roigard, Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie, Ruben Love
Midfield: Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane, Billy Proctor, David Havili, Anton Lienert-Brown
Outside backs: Caleb Clarke, Will Jordan, Sevu Reece, Leroy Carter/Chay Fihaki -
Not sure if there is a thread for players one expected to see more promise from this year, but my pick would be Haig-maybe he's nursing an injury or I missed his better games.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
Not sure if there is a thread for players one expected to see more promise from this year, but my pick would be Haig-maybe he's nursing an injury or I missed his better games.
He was injured for most of the first 3 months
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@Frank The best thing about Robertson and co. is that things not leak so much in advance as they did under Hansen and Foster who clearly gave their tame, client journalists 24-48 hours extra notice of big announcements. I'm expecting a surprise or two when the squad is named.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Frank The best thing about Robertson and co. is that things not leak so much in advance as they did under Hansen and Foster who clearly gave their tame, client journalists 24-48 extra notice of big announcements. I'm expecting a surprise or two when the squad is named.
There are other non-coaching staff who have moved on since 2023.
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Liam Napier's guess. Couple of depressing choices.
Likely All Blacks squad:
Props: Ethan de Groot, Tyrel Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi, Tamaiti Williams, George Bower/Josh Fusitu’a/Ollie Norris
Hookers: Codie Taylor, Samisoni Taukei’aho, George Bell
Locks: Scott Barrett, Tupou Vaa’i, Patrick Tuipulotu, Fabian Holland
Loose forwards: Ardie Savea, Wallace Sititi, Ethan Blackadder, Luke Jacobson, Du’Plessis Kirifi, Samipeni Finau
Halfbacks: Cam Roigard, Cortez Ratima, Noah Hotham
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie, Ruben Love
Midfield: Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane, Billy Proctor, David Havili, Anton Lienert-Brown
Outside backs: Caleb Clarke, Will Jordan, Sevu Reece, Leroy Carter/Chay Fihaki -
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
The irony is - picked as a 10 - what runs on the board does Ruben Love have? Half a dozen Super Rugby starts?
Little more at 10 than Rivez. And no trophy to show either. Unless they pick him as a 10/15
A Roigard - Love combo would be logical ...
Laidlaw was an idiot moving Love back to 15. The Canes were on a role with Love at 10 and that decision ultimately cost us from progressing further.
Next year, the Canes have to stick with that combo. They’ll be much better for it.
They also have to stick with the Higgins / Proctor combo which forces Jordie back to 15.
Why I agree on Love at 10, the loss of Aumua and the underpowered locking combo were where the heart of the problem.
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@george33 cant say i’m a Finau fan , i thought this was the perfect game for him to make a presence and shut a critic like me up but for mine he was too quiet i dont think Blackadder is the answer either but you cant deny how busy he was .
Finau does’nt make my team personally someone like TK Howden has shown more of a consistent presence during the comp@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
@george33 cant say i’m a Finau fan , i thought this was the perfect game for him to make a presence and shut a critic like me up but for mine he was too quiet i dont think Blackadder is the answer either but you cant deny how busy he was .
Finau does’nt make my team personally someone like TK Howden has shown more of a consistent presence during the compIf the Chiefs performance is anything to go by, Parker is the best chance we have of fielding a 6 who will make the oppo think twice about running into his channel.
