All Blacks 2025
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
The whole group didn't know how to win, got over the hump in 2011 and reached their peak in 2015/16.
Reminds me of the Hurricanes team that lost the final to the Highlanders. I'd argue they were a better team than the one that won the following year
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
The whole group didn't know how to win, got over the hump in 2011 and reached their peak in 2015/16.
Reminds me of the Hurricanes team that lost the final to the Highlanders. I'd argue they were a better team than the one that won the following year
I love that you found a way to mention the Hurricanes.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
The whole group didn't know how to win, got over the hump in 2011 and reached their peak in 2015/16.
Reminds me of the Hurricanes team that lost the final to the Highlanders. I'd argue they were a better team than the one that won the following year
I love that you found a way to mention the Hurricanes.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
The whole group didn't know how to win, got over the hump in 2011 and reached their peak in 2015/16.
Reminds me of the Hurricanes team that lost the final to the Highlanders. I'd argue they were a better team than the one that won the following year
I love that you found a way to mention the Hurricanes.
I thought the analogy was apt. IIRC that losing finalist team had a midfield consisting of M Nonu and C Smith, lots of other Canes greats that couldn't win it all that year
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
I think 2011 happened because of lessons learned in 2009 and how we changed our gameplan in 2010.
2015 was because we largely had consistency and a core group throughout that 2012-2015 period.
@DaGrubster i agree with Snakey. When you look at the overall collection of talent in that 2007 squad, we were loaded. Injuries, disjointed play, rotation and no luck, we’re our downfall.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
Easily. That squad is by some margin the most stacked that's ever turned up at a RWC.
Absolute disgrace they were robbed by Barnes' incompetence only matched by WR permitting him to cheat us out of another one.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
2011 and 2015 happened because of lessons learned in 2007
Ironically Conrad Smith reckons the 2007 team had the best players
Easily. That squad is by some margin the most stacked that's ever turned up at a RWC.
Absolute disgrace they were robbed by Barnes' incompetence only matched by WR permitting him to cheat us out of another one.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal Certainly wasn't the case last year. The Crusaders looked (and were) rubbish, and Sevu looked like he was carrying the whole team on his back most of the time.
Probably a degree of truth that it's harder to shine at the Highlanders, but I don't think it's the case at the other three teams.
@Chris-B Oh, good. You agree he’s been quality at Super Rigby and ordinary at test level. Glad we’re on the same page.
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@Chris-B Oh, good. You agree he’s been quality at Super Rigby and ordinary at test level. Glad we’re on the same page.
@ShaquilleOatmeal Yeah - I don't think Sevu is an AB great wing. I'm very happy if others come along who are better.
But, I expect them to be able to show their class in Super rugby. I thought Tangitau was well on the way this year. Carter gets his chance tonight.
But, we're having to shift Jordan back to his old job because the wing class of 2025 has been a bit disappointing.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal Yeah - I don't think Sevu is an AB great wing. I'm very happy if others come along who are better.
But, I expect them to be able to show their class in Super rugby. I thought Tangitau was well on the way this year. Carter gets his chance tonight.
But, we're having to shift Jordan back to his old job because the wing class of 2025 has been a bit disappointing.
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If someone is a proven underperformed at test level, the coaches should cast them aside no matter how well they go at Super Rugby and see if someone else can step up - some players go better at test level than Super Rugby. Thankfully, the coaches seem to have finally given up on Reece now. A number of players in the squad were unavailable this week and they still left him out.
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Yep, no doubt.
Even better than the teams that actually won in 11 and 15.
The best AB team not to win a WC.@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
Yep, no doubt.
Even better than the teams that actually won in 11 and 15.
The best AB team not to win a WC.The 1995 team would give some competition.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
I'll hear you out. But, be specific.
Who outplayed Sevu in the Super season?
Sevu is a Super rugby superstar, but for the last few years he's been a test failure. All those options you mentioned had as good seasons this year. His year of being the one good Crusader was over 12 months ago ....
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If someone is a proven underperformed at test level, the coaches should cast them aside no matter how well they go at Super Rugby and see if someone else can step up - some players go better at test level than Super Rugby. Thankfully, the coaches seem to have finally given up on Reece now. A number of players in the squad were unavailable this week and they still left him out.
@ShaquilleOatmeal Is that really true though, for new guys?
The guys who tend to go better at tests than Super are, as far as I recall, older guys who pace themselves through the Super season. I think Nonu and Frank Bunce are guys who are the classic models. Lots of the Crusaders under Toddy Blackadder.
I'm struggling to think of a newbie who set test rugby alight after being a somewhat lucky AB selection (i.e. not looking great in Super).
On this year's main wings:
Tele'a - leaving
Clarke - dog of a season - don't think he scored a try
Carter - caught the eye at times, but I went a bit cold on him in the play-offs
Narawa - decent enough and would be playing tonight if not injured
Naholo - pretty limited
Can't think who the other canes wing was - Punavai?
Reece - had a better season than all above
Springer - closer than Bones would like
Fihaki - no comment
Tangitau - best in class or at least most promising IMO.
Nareki - not for me
Lowe - ditto -
@ShaquilleOatmeal Is that really true though, for new guys?
The guys who tend to go better at tests than Super are, as far as I recall, older guys who pace themselves through the Super season. I think Nonu and Frank Bunce are guys who are the classic models. Lots of the Crusaders under Toddy Blackadder.
I'm struggling to think of a newbie who set test rugby alight after being a somewhat lucky AB selection (i.e. not looking great in Super).
On this year's main wings:
Tele'a - leaving
Clarke - dog of a season - don't think he scored a try
Carter - caught the eye at times, but I went a bit cold on him in the play-offs
Narawa - decent enough and would be playing tonight if not injured
Naholo - pretty limited
Can't think who the other canes wing was - Punavai?
Reece - had a better season than all above
Springer - closer than Bones would like
Fihaki - no comment
Tangitau - best in class or at least most promising IMO.
Nareki - not for me
Lowe - ditto@Chris-B Reece isn’t good enough at test level. I don’t care if he plays better than everyone else in Super Rugby. In that situation, they should get someone else in and see if they can step up. Narawa looked better in five minutes last week than Reece has for year.
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@Chris-B Reece isn’t good enough at test level. I don’t care if he plays better than everyone else in Super Rugby. In that situation, they should get someone else in and see if they can step up. Narawa looked better in five minutes last week than Reece has for year.
@ShaquilleOatmeal Yeah - it's a pity Narawa didn't get a whole test and some more to see what he can do.
But, it's not a compelling argument for me to say we should drop ordinary ABs for guys who are worse.
It doesn't look like a vintage wing crop - ala Doug, Joe, Sivi, Rico and the rest.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
I'll hear you out. But, be specific.
Who outplayed Sevu in the Super season?
Sevu is a Super rugby superstar, but for the last few years he's been a test failure. All those options you mentioned had as good seasons this year. His year of being the one good Crusader was over 12 months ago ....
@Nepia I've given you my assessment. I may have forgotten someone (there must be another Canes wing) and maybe there's Pacifica wings who are eligible.
But, it's not really surprising that we've been running with Sevu, Reiko and Will.
We're honestly not far from Chay and Macca if you guys are dead set against Sevu.
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@Nepia I've given you my assessment. I may have forgotten someone (there must be another Canes wing) and maybe there's Pacifica wings who are eligible.
But, it's not really surprising that we've been running with Sevu, Reiko and Will.
We're honestly not far from Chay and Macca if you guys are dead set against Sevu.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia I've given you my assessment. I may have forgotten someone (there must be another Canes wing) and maybe there's Pacifica wings who are eligible.
But, it's not really surprising that we've been running with Sevu, Reiko and Will.
We're honestly not far from Chay and Macca if you guys are dead set against Sevu.
And I've given you my correct assessment.
I'm not Bones, I'd be ok with Springer making it eventually. I'm actually looking forward to seeing home your home town boy Taumoefolau goes for the Chiefs next year.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia I've given you my assessment. I may have forgotten someone (there must be another Canes wing) and maybe there's Pacifica wings who are eligible.
But, it's not really surprising that we've been running with Sevu, Reiko and Will.
We're honestly not far from Chay and Macca if you guys are dead set against Sevu.
And I've given you my correct assessment.
I'm not Bones, I'd be ok with Springer making it eventually. I'm actually looking forward to seeing home your home town boy Taumoefolau goes for the Chiefs next year.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia I've given you my assessment. I may have forgotten someone (there must be another Canes wing) and maybe there's Pacifica wings who are eligible.
But, it's not really surprising that we've been running with Sevu, Reiko and Will.
We're honestly not far from Chay and Macca if you guys are dead set against Sevu.
And I've given you my correct assessment.
I'm not Bones, I'd be ok with Springer making it eventually. I'm actually looking forward to seeing home your home town boy Taumoefolau goes for the Chiefs next year.
James Lowe says hi.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia I've given you my assessment. I may have forgotten someone (there must be another Canes wing) and maybe there's Pacifica wings who are eligible.
But, it's not really surprising that we've been running with Sevu, Reiko and Will.
We're honestly not far from Chay and Macca if you guys are dead set against Sevu.
And I've given you my correct assessment.
I'm not Bones, I'd be ok with Springer making it eventually. I'm actually looking forward to seeing home your home town boy Taumoefolau goes for the Chiefs next year.
