All Blacks 2025
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
What are the captaincy options?
S Barrett, Ardie, Taylor.
Any other realistic options? I'll create a poll
Under the current regime the option needs to not only be in the squad, but a certain starter. To bolster their credentials they'd need to be seen (and accepted) as a leader in SR/ NPC.
So while I'd contemplate Patty or Dalts, neither are realistic options.
On form that leaves Codie.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
What are the captaincy options?
S Barrett, Ardie, Taylor.
Any other realistic options? I'll create a poll
Under the current regime the option needs to not only be in the squad, but a certain starter. To bolster their credentials they'd need to be seen (and accepted) as a leader in SR/ NPC.
So while I'd contemplate Patty or Dalts, neither are realistic options.
On form that leaves Codie.
If Dalts was captain it would solve a lot of issues. Codie would only be a stop gap at his age.
Anyway won't happen for Patty or Dalts. They will be lucky to get game time.
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This current crop of players should be made to watch our comeback against Ireland in Dublin 2013. Every time we get under scoreboard pressure, our clowns do silly low percentage hail mary shit. That comeback was all about accuracy and everyone doing their jobs properly, and is what good players do when under pressure: up the intensity and accuracy, not go looking for an individual highlight reel moment. If we were in that same situation now, we'd lose / chip kick the ball away 3-4 times before we hit that many phases. Pretty sure Beauden watched it from on the field, which makes it extra disappointing that he is probably the main culprit.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
This current crop of players should be made to watch our comeback against Ireland in Dublin 2013. Every time we get under scoreboard pressure, our clowns do silly low percentage hail mary shit. That comeback was all about accuracy and everyone doing their jobs properly, and is what good players do when under pressure: up the intensity and accuracy, not go looking for an individual highlight reel moment. If we were in that same situation now, we'd lose / chip kick the ball away 3-4 times before we hit that many phases. Pretty sure Beauden watched it from on the field, which makes it extra disappointing that he is probably the main culprit.
Interestingly Beauden Barrett is on the pitch (came on as a sub). He didnt look to kick it once.
In fact he notably took it into contact hard a few times when he came on, at one point busting Cian Healy the prop.I was at that game in the flesh.
Incredible scenes.
Our current crop would have shelled a pass or kicked it away after ten seconds of this clip.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
something ive noticed, they all try and take high balls on their chest....and i know thats taught as the safer option...but i also cant help but think the best in the world should be able to do better than the safe option, especially when we see the regular situation of it bouncing off their chest forward...... when i look at AFL taking marks above their head...yes a smaller ball but also one without any grip....i wonder.....
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
something ive noticed, they all try and take high balls on their chest....and i know thats taught as the safer option...but i also cant help but think the best in the world should be able to do better than the safe option, especially when we see the regular situation of it bouncing off their chest forward...... when i look at AFL taking marks above their head...yes a smaller ball but also one without any grip....i wonder.....
Yeah but ... their successful marks aren't guaranteed and more contested marks go to ground than get caught. And plenty of marks are paid when we'd consider it dropped. Just when they do catch one it's amazing. (I get your point, just think it needs some qualification.)
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Problem is, I can't remember the last time an AB captain was removed from the captaincy and stayed in the team. Has it happened before?
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
I can't believe people are calling for Jordie back to 15.
Do people forget how slow and laborious he was on the counter? Or trying to link up in the line to feed the wingers??
And he isn't that much better than Dmac in the air so why would we want to sacrifice so much offensive capability for near zero gain on the aerial side of the game?
I think JB would be top 3 in the air from the squad. Clarke being the best.
None are as good as Jane, Dagg, Kahui or Smith in the air. Its like we forgot the reason we went to those players.
When Ben Smith came for a catch he took man, ball, his granny, everything.
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What are the captaincy options?
S Barrett, Ardie, Taylor.
Any other realistic options? I'll create a poll
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
What are the captaincy options?
S Barrett, Ardie, Taylor.
Any other realistic options? I'll create a poll
Sititi has future potential. Could do a MCaw and invest long term.
Something about Vaa'i makes me go hmm. So what if he claps.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
What are the captaincy options?
S Barrett, Ardie, Taylor.
Any other realistic options? I'll create a poll
Sititi has future potential. Could do a MCaw and invest long term.
Something about Vaa'i makes me go hmm. So what if he claps.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2025:
What are the captaincy options?
S Barrett, Ardie, Taylor.
Any other realistic options? I'll create a poll
Sititi has future potential. Could do a MCaw and invest long term.
Something about Vaa'i makes me go hmm. So what if he claps.
Do you warm to Maro Itoje? No, didn’t think so. Now imagine you are a ref and he does that in front of you. Will that make you more or less likely to award the ABs a penalty?
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https://streamable.com/gt4e2?src=player-page-share
Where has this sort of starch gone?
Look at Cane in that third video compared to what we get from Ardie in the 7 shirt.
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https://streamable.com/gt4e2?src=player-page-share
Where has this sort of starch gone?
Look at Cane in that third video compared to what we get from Ardie in the 7 shirt.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
https://streamable.com/gt4e2?src=player-page-share
Where has this sort of starch gone?
Look at Cane in that third video compared to what we get from Ardie in the 7 shirt.
First one gets looked at by the TMO about 10k times. Far too upright and asking for trouble.
Third one by Cane is now an illegal seatbelt tackle, so likely gets a penalty and given the area on the pitch a possible YC.
The second one was a brilliant tackle.
I get that you want to bring some starch back Jet, but it has to be within the constraints of how today's game is reffed. I'm sure I have seen you call into question the intelligence of some players for getting YCs and RCs. Why would you advocate these types of tackle that run the risk of the team playing 10-20 mins down a player?
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
https://streamable.com/gt4e2?src=player-page-share
Where has this sort of starch gone?
Look at Cane in that third video compared to what we get from Ardie in the 7 shirt.
First one gets looked at by the TMO about 10k times. Far too upright and asking for trouble.
Third one by Cane is now an illegal seatbelt tackle, so likely gets a penalty and given the area on the pitch a possible YC.
The second one was a brilliant tackle.
I get that you want to bring some starch back Jet, but it has to be within the constraints of how today's game is reffed. I'm sure I have seen you call into question the intelligence of some players for getting YCs and RCs. Why would you advocate these types of tackle that run the risk of the team playing 10-20 mins down a player?
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
https://streamable.com/gt4e2?src=player-page-share
Where has this sort of starch gone?
Look at Cane in that third video compared to what we get from Ardie in the 7 shirt.
First one gets looked at by the TMO about 10k times. Far too upright and asking for trouble.
Third one by Cane is now an illegal seatbelt tackle, so likely gets a penalty and given the area on the pitch a possible YC.
The second one was a brilliant tackle.
I get that you want to bring some starch back Jet, but it has to be within the constraints of how today's game is reffed. I'm sure I have seen you call into question the intelligence of some players for getting YCs and RCs. Why would you advocate these types of tackle that run the risk of the team playing 10-20 mins down a player?
Not to mention that Cane got sent off in the RWC final for a high shot
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
https://streamable.com/gt4e2?src=player-page-share
Where has this sort of starch gone?
Look at Cane in that third video compared to what we get from Ardie in the 7 shirt.
First one gets looked at by the TMO about 10k times. Far too upright and asking for trouble.
Third one by Cane is now an illegal seatbelt tackle, so likely gets a penalty and given the area on the pitch a possible YC.
The second one was a brilliant tackle.
I get that you want to bring some starch back Jet, but it has to be within the constraints of how today's game is reffed. I'm sure I have seen you call into question the intelligence of some players for getting YCs and RCs. Why would you advocate these types of tackle that run the risk of the team playing 10-20 mins down a player?
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
https://streamable.com/gt4e2?src=player-page-share
Where has this sort of starch gone?
Look at Cane in that third video compared to what we get from Ardie in the 7 shirt.
First one gets looked at by the TMO about 10k times. Far too upright and asking for trouble.
Third one by Cane is now an illegal seatbelt tackle, so likely gets a penalty and given the area on the pitch a possible YC.
The second one was a brilliant tackle.
I get that you want to bring some starch back Jet, but it has to be within the constraints of how today's game is reffed. I'm sure I have seen you call into question the intelligence of some players for getting YCs and RCs. Why would you advocate these types of tackle that run the risk of the team playing 10-20 mins down a player?
I take your point but surely there is a middle ground between what we are getting from Ardie and what we got from Cane in that video?
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Ardies highlight real is all ball in hand.
We dont have any iconic tackles from him like Read on Vermuelen, Collins on Chabal, Kaino on Bradley Davies etc
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Ardies highlight real is all ball in hand.
We dont have any iconic tackles from him like Read on Vermuelen, Collins on Chabal, Kaino on Bradley Davies etc
Given Ardie is a 7, I don't see him in the enforcer role. I think the ABs have tried to change their tackling approach given how many cards they have picked up in the last few years for poor tackling technique. It has led to a more soaking style approach. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if the players are switched on to compete for the ball and jackal. Sometimes they are (see Eden Park), sometimes they aren't (see Cake Tin).
Notice in your list above you don't mention McCaw
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Ardies highlight real is all ball in hand.
We dont have any iconic tackles from him like Read on Vermuelen, Collins on Chabal, Kaino on Bradley Davies etc
Given Ardie is a 7, I don't see him in the enforcer role. I think the ABs have tried to change their tackling approach given how many cards they have picked up in the last few years for poor tackling technique. It has led to a more soaking style approach. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if the players are switched on to compete for the ball and jackal. Sometimes they are (see Eden Park), sometimes they aren't (see Cake Tin).
Notice in your list above you don't mention McCaw
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think dominant tackles is necessarily the issue. The ABs lack real ball carriers. Someone to punch holes and bend the defensive line. All of Read, Collins and Kaino could hit a ball up with venom. Who are the bruising ball carriers in the AB team right now that teams need to commit a couple of tacklers in order to subdue?
Sami? Sititi last year. Clarke if he is selected. His knees are weapons.
Samisoni is one, though he hasn't been as explosive so far this year.
Sititi uses his footwork more than his brawn to breach the gain line.
Clarke is a good strike weapon, granted.
Is that it? Va'ai is lightweight as a carrier, Holland has potential, Patty T is missed, T Williams when on form can carry, as can Tosi. Jordie Barrett shows glimpses of it, but it isn't his strength. Ioane can carry well at 13. That is not enough IMO.
To compare, Boks have the following ball carriers in their team: Marx, Etzebeth/de Jager/Snyman, Kolisi, PSDT, Wiese, DDA/Esterhuizen, Hooker.
I know ABs play a different kind of game, but if you allow a team with that many ball carriers possession and momentum, you're going to be battered into submission.
Because we’re not selecting the larger enforcer type players.
Going off super rugby page stats, so give it take a kilo or two and a cm or two:
Height wise: only two of the in the top 10 tallest loose forwards have been selected (Va’ai and Parker, take out Va’ai, it’s one).Weight wise: three - Va’ai, Parker, Finau (and Finau is actually on the shorter side
