WR U20 Championship 2025
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@Mauss said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
@cgrant said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
This is the poorest NZ team I have ever seen.
The 7-8 loss to Wales in the 2019 U20 tournament was worse, in my opinion. Pretty comparable games, just error after error, with the added insult of actually losing the game.
There were some good players in that Welsh team, who weren’t overawed
@MiketheSnow said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
There were some good players in that Welsh team, who weren’t overawed
Not trying to diminish the Welsh performance at all, the Wales U20s were incredibly committed that game.
I also think the Italian performance deserves plenty of praise. Some of the scramble defence, in this heat, was genuinely amazing. They were also ferocious at the breakdown. I don't think the NZ U20s were expecting this level of performance.
And, to be honest, after watching Italy in the U20 Six Nations, neither was I. They definitely came prepared to this tournament.
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Even allowing for the hot and humid conditions, that was a very unconvincing performance. If Wallace's injury is serious then the scrum will be in big trouble. Some added bulk from the main locks will help.
@Bovidae said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Even allowing for the hot and humid conditions, that was a very unconvincing performance. If Wallace's injury is serious then the scrum will be in big trouble. Some added bulk from the main locks will help.
It was good to see the scrum stability from Wallace, if only for a short while. He looks a proper unit these days.
Vakasiuola will probably start next game (if he's healthy). Has there been any update on Tengblad? I don't even think he's in Italy, right? So that leaves Baker, Sa and McLeod as the other options.
Unfortunately, neither of those are a like-for-like replacement of Tengblad. Not just his height, but Tengblad's work-rate through the middle was sorely missed against Italy, I felt.
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@Bovidae said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Even allowing for the hot and humid conditions, that was a very unconvincing performance. If Wallace's injury is serious then the scrum will be in big trouble. Some added bulk from the main locks will help.
It was good to see the scrum stability from Wallace, if only for a short while. He looks a proper unit these days.
Vakasiuola will probably start next game (if he's healthy). Has there been any update on Tengblad? I don't even think he's in Italy, right? So that leaves Baker, Sa and McLeod as the other options.
Unfortunately, neither of those are a like-for-like replacement of Tengblad. Not just his height, but Tengblad's work-rate through the middle was sorely missed against Italy, I felt.
@Mauss said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Has there been any update on Tengblad? I don't even think he's in Italy, right?
Tengblad was still in the updated squad. The fact that Baker was added suggests one of Vakasiuola or him might not be 100% fit. I don't remember seeing Tengblad after the game but not every squad player was shown on TV.
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@Mauss said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Has there been any update on Tengblad? I don't even think he's in Italy, right?
Tengblad was still in the updated squad. The fact that Baker was added suggests one of Vakasiuola or him might not be 100% fit. I don't remember seeing Tengblad after the game but not every squad player was shown on TV.
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@Bovidae said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Even allowing for the hot and humid conditions, that was a very unconvincing performance. If Wallace's injury is serious then the scrum will be in big trouble. Some added bulk from the main locks will help.
It was good to see the scrum stability from Wallace, if only for a short while. He looks a proper unit these days.
Vakasiuola will probably start next game (if he's healthy). Has there been any update on Tengblad? I don't even think he's in Italy, right? So that leaves Baker, Sa and McLeod as the other options.
Unfortunately, neither of those are a like-for-like replacement of Tengblad. Not just his height, but Tengblad's work-rate through the middle was sorely missed against Italy, I felt.
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This team looked good in winning TRC. Hard ro believe it is the same team
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Care to name the team?Hell Yeah! .... Anything but the "Baby Blacks"
What the? Who came up with this wussy lame name and who endorsed it? For goodness sake. What are we breeding in this country at present. This sappy name sounds like it came from someone with a face full of jewelry and purple and green hair. Fair dinkum, can't we come up with something matching their Haka?
All the players are over 2yrs. old for a start. -
This team looked good in winning TRC. Hard ro believe it is the same team
Wouldn't worry about it. No use peaking at the start of the tournament
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It's not a question of peaking, it's a question of low level of skills, lack of tactical cleverness, bad scrummaging, stupid indiscipline and very bad situation reading, particularly in the rucks, where many players stayed out wide when their commitment was needed. Positives : lineout and maul functioned pretty well.
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I’m going to buck this thread’s current trend a bit because I actually think this is the best NZ U20s team in quite a while, and – this might look very idiotic very quickly – I still think they’re going to make the final of this tournament (and yes, they need to be much better than they were against Italy).
My reason for thinking this is (perhaps worryingly) very simplistic: I like the talent and depth in the spine. Yes, the props are looking shaky and there’s not a lot of bulk in the second row. And some of those young loose forwards suddenly looked very much their respective ages. But I still think the spine is the best indicator of whether a team is going to go far or not, and I’m a fan of this cohort’s makeup in those positions.
This is the backline I would like to see against Georgia:
9- Pledger, 10- Cole, 11- Vaenuku, 12- Harvey, 13- Cameron, 14- Kunawave, 15- Solomon.
I want Pledger and Cole to further work on their combination, while I also would like to see Cameron get some game time. Cooper Roberts has played nearly every minute of every game so far, so there needs to be a bit more depth created at 13. The pack will need to front up against the Georgians but I think if they can do that, then the backs should create plenty of opportunities.
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Still can't believe how a team, key to the development of ABs and other senior levels of rugby in NZ, have departed the shores without a head coach?
Surely they could have roped in someone like Jamie Joseph for a few weeks to give some leadership? Instead, we have a series of co-coaches, none of whom you would perceive as "senior coaches" but more like guys who are assistants at the ITM/Super level.
I'm scratching my head over how the NZRFU sees the U20 Programme and the level, given the recent debacle around the NZ Schoolboys/U18 programme, where NZ Schools refused to agree to NZ U18 being the premier team for that age grade.
Finally D Pledger has a huge future, but his passing is dreadful at this level, he is very lucky that the likes of Cole have the skills to pick up his passes at their feet, but surprising that his skillset has gone backwards this year.
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Without sounding like a dolt, what is it that's had everyone gushing about Pledger as the second coming at halfback if he can't, you know, pass?
@Mr-Fish said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Without sounding like a dolt, what is it that's had everyone gushing about Pledger as the second coming at halfback if he can't, you know, pass?
I have no idea where this notion that Pledger's passing is poor has come from. He is an excellent passer, with consistent technique, quick service and excellent decision-making at picking out his options.
Here, after Vaenuku made a clean break, Pledger makes use of the fast recycle to pick out a running Pole, putting him perfectly through the gap:
His service got poorer against Italy as the game wore on, presumably because he was suffering from the heat, just as everyone else was. Does he throw a poor pass at times? Sure. But in my view, his passing is considerably better than both Ratima's and Hotham's, when they were at age grade level.
If there are improvements to be made to his game, I'd say his kicking (both long and contestable) needs the most improvement, as his execution and selection of kicks can be pretty inconsistent.
As to why he's so highly rated, that usually becomes clear pretty quickly when watching him play:
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMzg2NThnaDZlbDgzYnRyc2NydXA5dWhseTBpeTR4Z2Jid25oczA4aCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/jn4nIivqbXFqNCsh0i/giphy.gif
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExa2owazN0a3Byc3A3djV2Ymg4Z241bHhpc216bHV5bmdqbXg2YTJ1diZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/hHoVEQmsz3hp7mrPTX/giphy.gifThat's a 14 point swing, within the span of a minute, put together by just the one player.
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Care to name the team?Hell Yeah! .... Anything but the "Baby Blacks"
What the? Who came up with this wussy lame name and who endorsed it? For goodness sake. What are we breeding in this country at present. This sappy name sounds like it came from someone with a face full of jewelry and purple and green hair. Fair dinkum, can't we come up with something matching their Haka?
All the players are over 2yrs. old for a start. -
Still can't believe how a team, key to the development of ABs and other senior levels of rugby in NZ, have departed the shores without a head coach?
Surely they could have roped in someone like Jamie Joseph for a few weeks to give some leadership? Instead, we have a series of co-coaches, none of whom you would perceive as "senior coaches" but more like guys who are assistants at the ITM/Super level.
I'm scratching my head over how the NZRFU sees the U20 Programme and the level, given the recent debacle around the NZ Schoolboys/U18 programme, where NZ Schools refused to agree to NZ U18 being the premier team for that age grade.
Finally D Pledger has a huge future, but his passing is dreadful at this level, he is very lucky that the likes of Cole have the skills to pick up his passes at their feet, but surprising that his skillset has gone backwards this year.
@MJonesfan said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Still can't believe how a team, key to the development of ABs and other senior levels of rugby in NZ, have departed the shores without a head coach?
If there wasn't an alignment between the assistants and Haig it probably made no sense to bring someone in now who might not have the same ideas about how the team plays. Sexton might just be repeating the same mistake.
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I thought they said Baker's YC would remain yellow. Obviously not.
Randall Baker (New Zealand) has been suspended for 3 matches, reduced to 2 on successful completion of the Coaching Intervention Programme, and George Timmins (England) has been suspended for 5 matches after a Foul Play Review Committee considered their respective citing and red card issued during the Under 20s Championship on 29 June 2025.
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I thought they said Baker's YC would remain yellow. Obviously not.
Randall Baker (New Zealand) has been suspended for 3 matches, reduced to 2 on successful completion of the Coaching Intervention Programme, and George Timmins (England) has been suspended for 5 matches after a Foul Play Review Committee considered their respective citing and red card issued during the Under 20s Championship on 29 June 2025.
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@Mr-Fish said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Without sounding like a dolt, what is it that's had everyone gushing about Pledger as the second coming at halfback if he can't, you know, pass?
I have no idea where this notion that Pledger's passing is poor has come from. He is an excellent passer, with consistent technique, quick service and excellent decision-making at picking out his options.
Here, after Vaenuku made a clean break, Pledger makes use of the fast recycle to pick out a running Pole, putting him perfectly through the gap:
His service got poorer against Italy as the game wore on, presumably because he was suffering from the heat, just as everyone else was. Does he throw a poor pass at times? Sure. But in my view, his passing is considerably better than both Ratima's and Hotham's, when they were at age grade level.
If there are improvements to be made to his game, I'd say his kicking (both long and contestable) needs the most improvement, as his execution and selection of kicks can be pretty inconsistent.
As to why he's so highly rated, that usually becomes clear pretty quickly when watching him play:
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMzg2NThnaDZlbDgzYnRyc2NydXA5dWhseTBpeTR4Z2Jid25oczA4aCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/jn4nIivqbXFqNCsh0i/giphy.gif
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExa2owazN0a3Byc3A3djV2Ymg4Z241bHhpc216bHV5bmdqbXg2YTJ1diZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/hHoVEQmsz3hp7mrPTX/giphy.gifThat's a 14 point swing, within the span of a minute, put together by just the one player.
@Mauss
The other halfbacks we saw during this tournament did not throw so many bad passes to their 1st Fives, so the weather conditions are not an excuse. But I agree with you, he is very young and can improve this aspect. Hotham's passing was a different problem : it was incredibly slow. -
@Bovidae So we are now down another lock. Can we bring over a replacement? Dylan Eti to get the call up if so
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@MJonesfan said in WR U20 Championship 2025:
Still can't believe how a team, key to the development of ABs and other senior levels of rugby in NZ, have departed the shores without a head coach?
If there wasn't an alignment between the assistants and Haig it probably made no sense to bring someone in now who might not have the same ideas about how the team plays. Sexton might just be repeating the same mistake.
@Bovidae, what so leave one of our premier national teams without a Senior coach and leave them to a grouping of co-coaches who have never held a senior head coaching position? They had at least a month to bring in someone senior to at least give some direction, instead exactly how do you get a unified voice around tactics - if the job is shared? Last time I recall something like this was job sharing between Grizz Wyllie and John Hart at the 91 WC and that did not exactly go well either.
