All Blacks v France II
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France 2:
@mencey said in All Blacks v France 2:
Funny NOT. Hows Holland going ah ?
Tonight was not a great night for Proctor. But yes Holland is fast looking like an integral All Black.
You still watching last week's game?
Proctor’s performance really pleasing, I am hoping pretty soon he will be amongst first names on the team sheet. I think his upside is awesome.
@DMX said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France 2:
@mencey said in All Blacks v France 2:
Funny NOT. Hows Holland going ah ?
Tonight was not a great night for Proctor. But yes Holland is fast looking like an integral All Black.
You still watching last week's game?
Proctor’s performance really pleasing, I am hoping pretty soon he will be amongst first names on the team sheet. I think his upside is awesome.
Marked improvement on last week, much better awareness and positioning on the outside break right from the start was really pleasing to see, as well as getting to contribute on attack.
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I thought the ABs played the right gameplan when you’re coming up against a side like this French team: keep the ball among the forwards, kick smartly and build scoreboard pressure. It makes little sense to overplay against a team that doesn't really want to attack the game themselves, as last week showed, since it allows the opponent to build momentum off defensive wins. I’m guessing next week will be the big one, with several French journalists indicating that this is the game the French will target with their most experienced squad.
So I don’t think there’s a whole lot that can be taken from this game. But there were still some interesting things to note. While I’d be willing to explain the poor 4th quarter performance by losing Vaa’i unexpectedly, there was one sequence of play for which I’m pretty sure a few players are going to get an absolute bollocking.
The sequence starts in the 69th minute in a positive manner, Will Jordan doing well to clean up a French chip into the NZ 22, before, a few hectic phases later, Tavatavanawai puts in a neat little kick through that results in a French goal-line drop-out. It’s here, however, that the issues start. The French are clearly looking to go quickly and retain possession, yet multiple ABs switch off and turn their back to the play. Only Proctor is alert to the situation.
The French end up going quickly and retrieve their own drop-out, before eventually kicking long through Hastoy. Robertson, by all accounts, is a coach who puts a lot of emphasis on effort. What he’ll have seen here, won’t particularly please him. This is the situation when Hastoy puts in the kick, with most players bunched up in the French 22.
McKenzie, who is brought on to speed up the play, keeps the ball from going out and passes to Jordan. The problem, however, is that the AB support is nowhere to be seen, with both the French backs and forwards moving to the space quicker than their jogging counterparts.
As the ball is being turned over by the French bench forward Bastien Vergnes Taillefer, Robertson will have been frustrated by the sight of his own bench forwards, Finau and Tosi, still jogging back onside while the French have already stolen the ball. The French heavy Top 14 forwards, like Taofifenua and Montagne, aren’t particularly renowned for their endurance and work-rate, yet they’ve still arrived before Tosi has even appeared in the frame.
While there’s not a whole lot to gain from this July series – with outstanding performances always being potentially questioned by the lack of top Test opposition – there is, however, a lot that can be lost. Test careers won’t be built on this victory of the Dave Gallaher trophy but a few could well be buried. For some All Blacks, the final Test of the series in Hamilton will have plenty at stake.
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I thought the ABs played the right gameplan when you’re coming up against a side like this French team: keep the ball among the forwards, kick smartly and build scoreboard pressure. It makes little sense to overplay against a team that doesn't really want to attack the game themselves, as last week showed, since it allows the opponent to build momentum off defensive wins. I’m guessing next week will be the big one, with several French journalists indicating that this is the game the French will target with their most experienced squad.
So I don’t think there’s a whole lot that can be taken from this game. But there were still some interesting things to note. While I’d be willing to explain the poor 4th quarter performance by losing Vaa’i unexpectedly, there was one sequence of play for which I’m pretty sure a few players are going to get an absolute bollocking.
The sequence starts in the 69th minute in a positive manner, Will Jordan doing well to clean up a French chip into the NZ 22, before, a few hectic phases later, Tavatavanawai puts in a neat little kick through that results in a French goal-line drop-out. It’s here, however, that the issues start. The French are clearly looking to go quickly and retain possession, yet multiple ABs switch off and turn their back to the play. Only Proctor is alert to the situation.
The French end up going quickly and retrieve their own drop-out, before eventually kicking long through Hastoy. Robertson, by all accounts, is a coach who puts a lot of emphasis on effort. What he’ll have seen here, won’t particularly please him. This is the situation when Hastoy puts in the kick, with most players bunched up in the French 22.
McKenzie, who is brought on to speed up the play, keeps the ball from going out and passes to Jordan. The problem, however, is that the AB support is nowhere to be seen, with both the French backs and forwards moving to the space quicker than their jogging counterparts.
As the ball is being turned over by the French bench forward Bastien Vergnes Taillefer, Robertson will have been frustrated by the sight of his own bench forwards, Finau and Tosi, still jogging back onside while the French have already stolen the ball. The French heavy Top 14 forwards, like Taofifenua and Montagne, aren’t particularly renowned for their endurance and work-rate, yet they’ve still arrived before Tosi has even appeared in the frame.
While there’s not a whole lot to gain from this July series – with outstanding performances always being potentially questioned by the lack of top Test opposition – there is, however, a lot that can be lost. Test careers won’t be built on this victory of the Dave Gallaher trophy but a few could well be buried. For some All Blacks, the final Test of the series in Hamilton will have plenty at stake.
@Mauss I think it just points to the bench being a lot more lackadaisical than the starters, where it's supposed to be the opposite. It seems logical that a guy like Razor would promote a "take it easy" stance to injecting yourself into the game, but players might be taking it a bit too literally.
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@middleman said in All Blacks v France 2:
Happy with the game but getting really pissed off with Dagg and all the advertorials for the TAB. Also not sure what Wheeler brings to the package. I just listen to what Mils ( and surprisingly Beaver ) says after the game and then do something else.
Mils talks and doesn’t really offer any opinions. Donald is good.. the only one who seems to analyse what actually happened not just repeat talking points they came up with in rehearsal
@Duluth said in All Blacks v France 2:
@middleman said in All Blacks v France 2:
Happy with the game but getting really pissed off with Dagg and all the advertorials for the TAB. Also not sure what Wheeler brings to the package. I just listen to what Mils ( and surprisingly Beaver ) says after the game and then do something else.
Mils talks and doesn’t really offer any opinions. Donald is good.. the only one who seems to analyse what actually happened not just repeat talking points they came up with in rehearsal
I agree with Donald , sometimes the guys who give the best analysis weren’t necessarily the best players and vica versa . .
I liked his show on radio while it lasted even if it meant putting up with Kirsty .
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@sparky said in All Blacks v France 2:
Ref looks out of his depth I'm afraid.
You know?
I thought for a 17yo he was alright.
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Proctor is fucking useless
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France 2:
Proctor is fucking useless
Not showing the promised awesomeness.
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When Jordie plays at 10 we are so much more direct.
Can't believe BB missed that easy conversion and he is still passing way too early.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France 2:
When Jordie plays at 10 we are so much more direct.
Can't believe BB missed that easy conversion and he is still passing way too early.Can't believe we're opting for Beaudie to goal kick when Jordie is on the field.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
> Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
Interesting seeing a lot of these guys up close in my first AB test since 2011.
The thought of injuries striking and a loose trio of Savea, Lio Willie and Kirifi on the field at the same time is too ridiculous for words. We know what Ardie brings but the other two will just get rag dolled by bigger teams. They honestly looked like halfbacks out there. Savea is still such an X factor player though. The run to set up Vaai was amazing to see.
Reiko Ioane is bigger than I thought he’d be. Would have been good to see him have a crack on the outside. Possibly not as sharp as he used to be.
TNT a pocket battleship, worth persevering with.
Proctor a bit rocks and diamonds.
Jordie effective and did well to bounce back from that tip tackle.
Tuipulotu toiled hard, seems rough he’ll probably be jettisoned when Barrett comes back because they’ll certainly keep Holland on the park as much as possible.
Vaai going from strength to strength. This could be his long term position. Not good news for Finau who did nothing.
Food excellent if over priced ( I had two separate feeds as I was starving ). Beer tolerable.
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When Jordie plays at 10 we are so much more direct.
Can't believe BB missed that easy conversion and he is still passing way too early.Jordie did a good job at 10. Everything was so much more simpler which as it turns out is all we needed.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France 2:
Beaudy was a massive disappointment.
RUBEN LOVE IS A LEGEND!!!!!!!
I reckon Higgins can play 10.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Frank said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v France 2:
Beaudy was a massive disappointment.
RUBEN LOVE IS A LEGEND!!!!!!!
I reckon Higgins can play 10.
Godfrey
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So we finished with Finau at lock, Lio-Willie at 6, Ardie at 8 and Kirifi at 7 after Vaa'i went off?
No surprises things turned a bit sloppy. Hopefully Vaa'i is not injured too badly.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
So we finished with Finau at lock, Lio-Willie at 6, Ardie at 8 and Kirifi at 7 after Vaa'i went off?
No surprises things turned a bit sloppy. Hopefully Vaa'i is not injured too badly.
You and your "logic".
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
And maybe International sides are just better at protecting the ball than domestic sides?
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
And maybe International sides are just better at protecting the ball than domestic sides?
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
And maybe International sides are just better at protecting the ball than domestic sides?
It's a good point you raise. It's interesting watching the Lions, England and Scotland sides this weekend. As the defending team they really attack the ball at the breakdown collectively across the park not relying on any one player for that job.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
> Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
Interesting seeing a lot of these guys up close in my first AB test since 2011.
The thought of injuries striking and a loose trio of Savea, Lio Willie and Kirifi on the field at the same time is too ridiculous for words. We know what Ardie brings but the other two will just get rag dolled by bigger teams. They honestly looked like halfbacks out there. Savea is still such an X factor player though. The run to set up Vaai was amazing to see.
Reiko Ioane is bigger than I thought he’d be. Would have been good to see him have a crack on the outside. Possibly not as sharp as he used to be.
TNT a pocket battleship, worth persevering with.
Proctor a bit rocks and diamonds.
Jordie effective and did well to bounce back from that tip tackle.
Tuipulotu toiled hard, seems rough he’ll probably be jettisoned when Barrett comes back because they’ll certainly keep Holland on the park as much as possible.
Vaai going from strength to strength. This could be his long term position. Not good news for Finau who did nothing.
Food excellent if over priced ( I had two separate feeds as I was starving ). Beer tolerable.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v France II:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France 2:
Proctor a bit rocks and diamonds.
Diamonds?
I don’t want to upset @Canes4life
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
And maybe International sides are just better at protecting the ball than domestic sides?
It's a good point you raise. It's interesting watching the Lions, England and Scotland sides this weekend. As the defending team they really attack the ball at the breakdown collectively across the park not relying on any one player for that job.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France II:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
And maybe International sides are just better at protecting the ball than domestic sides?
It's a good point you raise. It's interesting watching the Lions, England and Scotland sides this weekend. As the defending team they really attack the ball at the breakdown collectively across the park not relying on any one player for that job.
Yup, a real area the northern sides concentrate on. We like to commit less to breakdowns here obviously as we like to use the full width of the field , but there, obviously committing more numbers to each breakdown, using less of the field, more size across their packs, a real willingness to not lose the ball in the wrong part of the field, a real emphasis on the high ball, all these aspects of play make a specialist jacklers job very hard to have success internationally, as opposed to domestically.
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Up there as one of PTs best games in black?
Hope he can build on that, eas good having 2 big men in him and Holland and then Vaai in the loose.
But damn we need to do.better with our bench, need to revisit the make up of our starting 15 and bench cos we are getting fuck all from them.
