Exodus 2017
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@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
@gollum said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@Bovidae said in Exodus 2017:
So Hansen was an ex-NZer too when he coached Wales? :thinking:
I think he meant ex-AB (but quite possibly did say ex-NZer).
Every news article I've seen re Lam in the UK refers to "Samoan, Pat Lam"" so maybe he's got a point. Apparently (up here) Pats a Samoan.
Maybe someone should ask him what passport he is working on in the UK?
Given EU labor laws almost certainly his Samoan. Kiwi Pat indeed.
It's easier to work in the UK on a Samoan passport?
@Bones said in Exodus 2017:
@rotated said in Exodus 2017:
@gollum said in Exodus 2017:
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
@Bovidae said in Exodus 2017:
So Hansen was an ex-NZer too when he coached Wales? :thinking:
I think he meant ex-AB (but quite possibly did say ex-NZer).
Every news article I've seen re Lam in the UK refers to "Samoan, Pat Lam"" so maybe he's got a point. Apparently (up here) Pats a Samoan.
Maybe someone should ask him what passport he is working on in the UK?
Given EU labor laws almost certainly his Samoan. Kiwi Pat indeed.
It's easier to work in the UK on a Samoan passport?
There are some benefits/flexibility under the Cotonou Agreement - although far more when it comes to players.
I'm sure that Lam would have no problems on the NZ passport too though, even if his case for an 'exceptional talent in a skill/discipline" would be dubious.
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Craig Innes, who is part of the Esportif management team that looks after Luatua, is bemused by Hansen's comments.
According to Innes, not only did they approach New Zealand Rugby's contracting team, but an offer was put on the table. Correspondence between Esportif and New Zealand Rugby started in December.
So how then did Hansen not know Luatua was being offered a life-changing deal to join Bristol?
This seems very odd, especially when you add in the meeting Luatua had with the All Black coaches two weeks ago, when all aspects of 2017 were discussed, except for the small matter of Luatua potentially going overseas.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11803397
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I'm sure Innes is saying that in order to secure his ongoing relationship with players...
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thing I dont get, is what does Hansen get from this with lying, he coulda said nothing.
I can understand his comment that some agents may try to minimise negotiations with NZR cos the $$$ from that contract will be less than the offers up North, but surely if Luatua is keen to stay, his agent knows this, so he makes an effort to ensure that all parties are aware.
All very strange TBH.
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thing I dont get, is what does Hansen get from this with lying, he coulda said nothing.
I can understand his comment that some agents may try to minimise negotiations with NZR cos the $$$ from that contract will be less than the offers up North, but surely if Luatua is keen to stay, his agent knows this, so he makes an effort to ensure that all parties are aware.
All very strange TBH.
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@taniwharugby Maybe the NZRU fucked up and didn't communicate with Hansen? Maybe Hansen was angry and misspoke in that anger?
@Tim well that could be the case, but people (media) seem to be pointing at Hansen, who I see gaining nothing for lying as being insinuated.
Although Innes also says they (the coaches) met with Luatua a few weeks prior and it seems he is saying Luatua told them then he was looking offshore.
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That's Craig Innes who defected to league...?
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Interesting article from Veitch.
As previously - I sit on the other side from his:
But is it right for the national body and All Black coaches to cry foul when a player is merely making the choice every one of us does in our working life, to stay or go.
These aren't people who have come through a taxpayer-funded system of education who are going away to accumulate experience that might be of value to all of us later. These are people who have been given a shitload of privilege to develop them into world class players and are capitalising on NZ rugby's intellectual property.
I say, fuck 'em!
You want to take the cash, that's fine. But, I'm going to criticize you as a mercenary.
These aren't people being paid minimum wage. These are people grabbing big cash and selling out on NZ rugby.
I have no problem with people putting the boot in. Fuck French, English, Welsh, and Japanese rugby.
They've completely fucked over the Jaapies, largely fucked over the Aussies, and we're on the hitlist.
Fuck 'em!!!
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Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
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Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line. Someone like Luatua has surely already earned close to a million bucks from rugby. You'd certainly be hard pressed to find any of his contemporaries, in any occupation, who'd be as well placed as him.
Fair enough if he wants to cash in - but, lets call it. These guys are selling us out.
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@Tim said in Exodus 2017:
They're also people who are one injury away from forced retirement or even brain damage.
To be fair there are plenty of jobs/careers where you are one injury away from forced retirement. Particularly if your job involves physical labour or driving.
I don't agree with the notion that professional sport is just like any other job. Players have every right to go where ever they want but fans also have a right to be pissed off about it.
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@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line. Someone like Luatua has surely already earned close to a million bucks from rugby. You'd certainly be hard pressed to find any of his contemporaries, in any occupation, who'd be as well placed as him.
Fair enough if he wants to cash in - but, lets call it. These guys are selling us out.
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line.
Samoans have this thing called faalavelaves. Unless you're an islander, you would have no idea. But I don't blame you for knowing nothing about our way of life.
I see it the same as people being educated through the nz system and then leaving for overseas for better pay opportunities..
Good on Luatua.. I wish him all the best and hope he comes back with a tighter game lol..
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@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line.
Samoans have this thing called faalavelaves. Unless you're an islander, you would have no idea. But I don't blame you for knowing nothing about our way of life.
I see it the same as people being educated through the nz system and then leaving for overseas for better pay opportunities..
Good on Luatua.. I wish him all the best and hope he comes back with a tighter game lol..
@mimic You're right about my knowledge of faalavelaves.
But I said exactly the same about Colin Slade. And others in the more distant past.
I've only refrained on many others, because making the same point over and over would be boring.
But, I'd be surprised if my lack of knowledge of Samoan customs discounts my point about people making off with our intellectual capital.
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@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line.
Samoans have this thing called faalavelaves. Unless you're an islander, you would have no idea. But I don't blame you for knowing nothing about our way of life.
I see it the same as people being educated through the nz system and then leaving for overseas for better pay opportunities..
Good on Luatua.. I wish him all the best and hope he comes back with a tighter game lol..
@mimic said in Exodus 2017:
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line.
Samoans have this thing called faalavelaves. Unless you're an islander, you would have no idea. But I don't blame you for knowing nothing about our way of life.
I see it the same as people being educated through the nz system and then leaving for overseas for better pay opportunities..
Good on Luatua.. I wish him all the best and hope he comes back with a tighter game lol..
Whats the point behind "Fa'alavelave"?
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@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line.
Samoans have this thing called faalavelaves. Unless you're an islander, you would have no idea. But I don't blame you for knowing nothing about our way of life.
I see it the same as people being educated through the nz system and then leaving for overseas for better pay opportunities..
Good on Luatua.. I wish him all the best and hope he comes back with a tighter game lol..
@mimic said in Exodus 2017:
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line.
Samoans have this thing called faalavelaves. Unless you're an islander, you would have no idea. But I don't blame you for knowing nothing about our way of life.
I see it the same as people being educated through the nz system and then leaving for overseas for better pay opportunities..
Good on Luatua.. I wish him all the best and hope he comes back with a tighter game lol..
But the point of the education system is to educate people so they can do the best in life whatever they choose to do, not so they stay within the system to make it the most full of smart people in the world.
A better analogy is a company training a guy they pulled out of the warehouse until he makes it into upper management. He may do a few years there but then fucks off to the competition saying look i have all this experience and all these skills. They would be justified in being annoyed because that person never paid back the resources that were put into developing them and would be taking many "secrets" from that development with them. Sure the guys natural skills abilities and hard work would have helped along the way but without the "system" he probably would have only ended up driving a forklift in the warehouse getting paid $5 more than what he started on.
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@mimic said in Exodus 2017:
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line.
Samoans have this thing called faalavelaves. Unless you're an islander, you would have no idea. But I don't blame you for knowing nothing about our way of life.
I see it the same as people being educated through the nz system and then leaving for overseas for better pay opportunities..
Good on Luatua.. I wish him all the best and hope he comes back with a tighter game lol..
But the point of the education system is to educate people so they can do the best in life whatever they choose to do, not so they stay within the system to make it the most full of smart people in the world.
A better analogy is a company training a guy they pulled out of the warehouse until he makes it into upper management. He may do a few years there but then fucks off to the competition saying look i have all this experience and all these skills. They would be justified in being annoyed because that person never paid back the resources that were put into developing them and would be taking many "secrets" from that development with them. Sure the guys natural skills abilities and hard work would have helped along the way but without the "system" he probably would have only ended up driving a forklift in the warehouse getting paid $5 more than what he started on.
@raznomore It's basically to show support, love and respect. I was on the receiving end of it a couple of times so I am grateful for it. I always complain about it though, but my siblings and I pay for my mums share when it comes to faalavelaves.
When there's an event like a funeral, wedding etc.. (not just close family, but extended family or people of the village), people gather and show their support by giving money/gifts.
@pukunui I was thinking more along the lines of uni education.. studying to be a doctor/engineer/accountant in nz, and then moving overseas for work after working 7 or so years in nz.
What secrets is Luatua going to share? Their coach is an ex-New Zealander.
