B&I Lions 2017
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This is what Gatland said. Hardly controversial I would think. It's going to be a long 6 weeks...
"You're trying to deliver that message sometimes when you're playing the All Blacks about confidence and self-belief," he explained.
"You're not too sure when you get that glazed look from the players if they honestly believe that!
"So, Ireland doing that in Chicago was pretty special, especially considering at 27-8 at half-time, you think they're going to comfortably do it.
"To see the All Blacks come back and almost look like they were going to steal it and then for the Irish to, in that last 10 minutes, put them under pressure - and to see some of those world class players be human, make some mistakes, show some frailties - that gives you that self-belief and confidence.
"You're trying to deliver that message to put players and teams under pressure - that they're human and will make mistakes.
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So, they've picked their squad, and it looks really solid. Some seriously talented players, especially in the pack, and solid in the backs.
If you are Gatland and the coaching staff, what are your focuses? Given the short prep to gel the side, what things to you focus hard on?
Set piece is a given, especially the lineout, where we have relived/created so much pressure over the past few years.
Kick chase. They'll have really good kickers, but it's the organisation of the chase that will dictate. We're brutal on poor kicking/chasing, if you can limit those opportunities, you'll force us to look for points elsewhere.
Defense. I'm not sure i would be using Gatland's favoured rush defense, because if one guy gets out of sync, Barrett will skin them. I would have a soft lift, and aim to be organised and really hard just beyond the gain line. High tackles in numbers to slow the ball down, and don't focus on the ball runner, look at that fucking forward 2 out that we make so many metres off. As ever when you are playing us, the ability to be able to switch very quickly from attack to defense on turnover will be key.
We'll do our usual kicking a lot, don't give it back to us. I think, given our resources, it's possible to keep the ball against us for long periods, if you are accurate enough. Keep the ball, wear us down, power run the fringes, and look to punch through there, have the wings/FB sniffing around those running back rowers. I think it's where we've looked the most vulnerable in recent years. Force the locks in particular to make a fuck load of tackles, and wear them down.We don't lose a lot, so there isn't that much to go on, but if you can limit our broken field opportunities, and slow the ball down to minimise mismatches, you can force us to play a game we're not that far ahead in, and maybe expose our weakness in goal kicking. That's what i would be focusing on.
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So, they've picked their squad, and it looks really solid. Some seriously talented players, especially in the pack, and solid in the backs.
If you are Gatland and the coaching staff, what are your focuses? Given the short prep to gel the side, what things to you focus hard on?
Set piece is a given, especially the lineout, where we have relived/created so much pressure over the past few years.
Kick chase. They'll have really good kickers, but it's the organisation of the chase that will dictate. We're brutal on poor kicking/chasing, if you can limit those opportunities, you'll force us to look for points elsewhere.
Defense. I'm not sure i would be using Gatland's favoured rush defense, because if one guy gets out of sync, Barrett will skin them. I would have a soft lift, and aim to be organised and really hard just beyond the gain line. High tackles in numbers to slow the ball down, and don't focus on the ball runner, look at that fucking forward 2 out that we make so many metres off. As ever when you are playing us, the ability to be able to switch very quickly from attack to defense on turnover will be key.
We'll do our usual kicking a lot, don't give it back to us. I think, given our resources, it's possible to keep the ball against us for long periods, if you are accurate enough. Keep the ball, wear us down, power run the fringes, and look to punch through there, have the wings/FB sniffing around those running back rowers. I think it's where we've looked the most vulnerable in recent years. Force the locks in particular to make a fuck load of tackles, and wear them down.We don't lose a lot, so there isn't that much to go on, but if you can limit our broken field opportunities, and slow the ball down to minimise mismatches, you can force us to play a game we're not that far ahead in, and maybe expose our weakness in goal kicking. That's what i would be focusing on.
@mariner4life Gatland and Howley aren't about to change their spots. Farrell Sr isn't about to develop a new defensive system either. Disparate players trying to play slightly different systems next to guys they don't often play alongside will give us opportunities.
It will be maul, maul, bash, bash and any inventiveness will come down to individual players playing what they see.
They'll be just as good as us in the set piece, probably better at mauling. They'll secure ball well in the forwards because they'll send more players in than we will. I expect them to send a lot of traffic down the narrow channels and rely on ol' cyclops to kick points.
It's counterattack where we'll skin them unless the weather becomes an equalizer.
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It's a good looking squad and it's good that the Joseph out, Roberts in "leak" was bullshit. I think they'll go well, and if they get good team harmony, then they are a good shout at knocking us over.
The selection of Payne / Te'o etc ... Look, I'll say it. It just seems wrong to me. Having some NZ born / raised players there just isn't right in my view. Sure, following the eligiblity rules for countries, but this is the Lions. It should, in my view, have a "State Of Origin" selection policy around it.
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@mariner4life Gatland and Howley aren't about to change their spots. Farrell Sr isn't about to develop a new defensive system either. Disparate players trying to play slightly different systems next to guys they don't often play alongside will give us opportunities.
It will be maul, maul, bash, bash and any inventiveness will come down to individual players playing what they see.
They'll be just as good as us in the set piece, probably better at mauling. They'll secure ball well in the forwards because they'll send more players in than we will. I expect them to send a lot of traffic down the narrow channels and rely on ol' cyclops to kick points.
It's counterattack where we'll skin them unless the weather becomes an equalizer.
@antipodean yea that's all true, but that seems like the hard way to go about it. Gatland must be hoping his plan will work better with a few better players to implement it, and a talented bench to live with us in the last 20.
Farrell's defensive pattern looks a bit shit to be honest. If England weren't pathological about kicking away all their ball there seemed to be holes everywhere.
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@antipodean yea that's all true, but that seems like the hard way to go about it. Gatland must be hoping his plan will work better with a few better players to implement it, and a talented bench to live with us in the last 20.
Farrell's defensive pattern looks a bit shit to be honest. If England weren't pathological about kicking away all their ball there seemed to be holes everywhere.
@mariner4life said in B&I Lions 2017:
@antipodean yea that's all true, but that seems like the hard way to go about it. Gatland must be hoping his plan will work better with a few better players to implement it, and a talented bench to live with us in the last 20.
Yeah, the problem for Wales over the last decade has been not enough English and Irish players...
Farrell's defensive pattern looks a bit shit to be honest.
That's because it's much easier to come up with a defensive system that permits you to have basically everyone standing in a line.
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@mariner4life said in B&I Lions 2017:
@antipodean yea that's all true, but that seems like the hard way to go about it. Gatland must be hoping his plan will work better with a few better players to implement it, and a talented bench to live with us in the last 20.
Yeah, the problem for Wales over the last decade has been not enough English and Irish players...
Farrell's defensive pattern looks a bit shit to be honest.
That's because it's much easier to come up with a defensive system that permits you to have basically everyone standing in a line.
@antipodean aye?
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Speaking of rankings, I presume as the B&I Lions do not have a ranking, and are not a country, then the AB's will not lose or gain any ranking points for any wins or losses in the series?
@Number-10 said in B&I Lions 2017:
Speaking of rankings, I presume as the B&I Lions do not have a ranking, and are not a country, then the AB's will not lose or gain any ranking points for any wins or losses in the series?
I'm pretty sure you're right.
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Planet Rugby's Lions 2017: Left at home XV
The reasons for their selections are in the article:
15 Mike Brown (Harlequins/England)
14 Simon Zebo (Munster/Ireland)
13 Garry Ringrose (Leinster/Ireland)
12 Scott Williams (Scarlets/Wales)
11 Sean Maitland (Saracens/Scotland)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
9 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester/Scotland)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh/Scotland)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins/England)
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps/England)
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton/England)
1 Cian Healy (Leinster/Ireland) -
Planet Rugby's Lions 2017: Left at home XV
The reasons for their selections are in the article:
15 Mike Brown (Harlequins/England)
14 Simon Zebo (Munster/Ireland)
13 Garry Ringrose (Leinster/Ireland)
12 Scott Williams (Scarlets/Wales)
11 Sean Maitland (Saracens/Scotland)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
9 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester/Scotland)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh/Scotland)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins/England)
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps/England)
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton/England)
1 Cian Healy (Leinster/Ireland)@Stargazer tbh I'd only consider three of them to be hard done by. In order; Gray (who was a defensive rock for Scotland), Hartley (who starts and captains his country as well as being the best hooker in England/ Wales/ Scotland/ Ireland) and Laidlaw.
I think someone else mentioned it, but Launchbury isn't as good as his England locks, certainly not better than Kruis.
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A well-known leader reacts to Gatland's selection
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Ok I think its a strong squad but it seems to me that I'm hearing the same old stuff that was said prior to 2005 from the Lions/UK media. No stone unturned, this is the strongest and biggest squad, power game, the strength and depth is fantastic and training is going to be so competitive to get in the test side that its just going to be brutal. I see no real creative spark in this squad or the coaching team
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I wouldn't mind if someone could give me a logical answer as to why one country ranked 5th provides just two players and another ranked 8th provides twelve.
Now i know how Highlanders fans felt in 2015 when none of their forwards became ABs
@MN5 said in B&I Lions 2017:
I wouldn't mind if someone could give me a logical answer as to why one country ranked 5th provides just two players and another ranked 8th provides twelve.
Now i know how Highlanders fans felt in 2015 when none of their forwards became ABs
Scotland may well have beaten Wales, but they were destroyed by England who were then dispatched the following match by Ireland.
When it came to the crunch, Scotland folded like a deckchair.
Not what's needed on a NZ tour -
How competitive are the wam-up games likely to be? Will the sides go all out to win, or will coaches and players save themselves for Super Rugby?
I assume the All Blacks squad will be missing from the wam-up games, with the possible exception of the Maori?
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You could probably make a case for Laidlaw as 3rd SH and a possible midweek captain, but he does not present a running threat, unlike the three guys chosen.
@Disgusted-of-TW said in B&I Lions 2017:
You could probably make a case for Laidlaw as 3rd SH and a possible midweek captain, but he does not present a running threat, unlike the three guys chosen.
If fit, I would have taken him. Goalkicking too.
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How competitive are the wam-up games likely to be? Will the sides go all out to win, or will coaches and players save themselves for Super Rugby?
I assume the All Blacks squad will be missing from the wam-up games, with the possible exception of the Maori?
@SimonAdd_2 the first two super rugby opposition, the Blues and Crusaders, will be full strength including All Blacks.
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Planet Rugby's Lions 2017: Left at home XV
The reasons for their selections are in the article:
15 Mike Brown (Harlequins/England)
14 Simon Zebo (Munster/Ireland)
13 Garry Ringrose (Leinster/Ireland)
12 Scott Williams (Scarlets/Wales)
11 Sean Maitland (Saracens/Scotland)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
9 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester/Scotland)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh/Scotland)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins/England)
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps/England)
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton/England)
1 Cian Healy (Leinster/Ireland)@Stargazer said in B&I Lions 2017:
Planet Rugby's Lions 2017: Left at home XV
The reasons for their selections are in the article:
15 Mike Brown (Harlequins/England)
14 Simon Zebo (Munster/Ireland)
13 Garry Ringrose (Leinster/Ireland)
12 Scott Williams (Scarlets/Wales)
11 Sean Maitland (Saracens/Scotland)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
9 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester/Scotland)
8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
7 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh/Scotland)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins/England)
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps/England)
3 Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors/Scotland)
2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton/England)
1 Cian Healy (Leinster/Ireland)Would get pumped by the mid-week team.
Let alone the Test team.
Let alone the ABs
