The Silver Fern

Lol if anyone saw how much the Kiwi cricketers put away (on Baz's first tour) back in early 2000s. they would see where he got his ideas of how to relax.

@mohikamo said in Super Rugby 2026:

Funny that the Horowhenua RFU are the only PU in the region that now has a direct stake in the canes (3%).
All the other PUs are only “stake holders.”
The Horowhenua RFU a little fiscal power-house, who’d have thunk it.

Lol I would mate, been singing their praises for quite some time.
A well run union, books been in the black at last 18 AGMs, and in that time have built own new HQs at the Levin Domain!

@Canes4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:

@Dan54 said in Super Rugby - The Future:

@mohikamo said in Super Rugby - The Future:

@Dan54 said in Exodus:

Yep, I want to keep the NPC. Why? Because it probably the best and enjoyable comp in the country. Does it cost NZR money, yep, but I only looking at it as what I want.

Haha
The older ferners can remember when NZ did have a world class domestic rugby comp.
Big crowds, great players, great games.
So sad for the younguns; at least the olduns have the memories.

Mate I pretty keen on our domestic comp now. I prefer to to super.
Not as good as maybe could be, but I find it best we got.
Even that I would be very keen to having (as some have said) 9-10 team comp, or even the old 3 tier system. I also understand why it wouldn't work in this day or professionalism .
I also understand the idea of 9-10 teams in extended Super, but could only work with full rework of world rugby calendar (and perhaps a lot more money) . Perhaps not only moving RC to beginning of year, but also the inbound tours etc. Then go for a proper comp without stopping for tests?
Just a random thought.

If I could go back to any sort of rugby period it would be the early 2000s Super Rugby era. Electric rugby, huge crowds and amazing players. Take me back.

The domestic NPC comp is nothing more than a development comp now unfortunately. The standard has dropped hugely over the last 10 years and with All Blacks barely playing in it, it’s just not a profitable model anymore with very moderate crowds. If nothing is done with Super Rugby it could end up with the same fate unfortunately.

Yep would love it, but we stuck with paying the bills with test rugby now aren't we! The test window moved later etc, and followed by Autumn series etc has surely put ruined things.
F*** professionalism stuffing things up!!

I know we had to have it etc, but it certaily ruins sport really doesn't it?

@SouthernMann said in Super Rugby - The Future:

@Dan54 said in Super Rugby - The Future:

I still think in most weekends you would get as many to NPC games (combined) as you got at super..

I can't find the hard numbers for Super attendance or a game by game breakdown for NPC. But even the soft ones, this claim is not true and I know it is one you constantly fall back on.

With NZRs publicity following the completion of the competition (NPC) it stated 240k fans attended games. That is across 77 games. Which means on average 3,117 people attended games. Meaning each week 21,818 people on average attended across the seven game weekend.

That 240k it includes:

18k Canterbury v Otago - final
Nearly 11 k Otago v BoP semi final
8 k Southland v Otago

There is nearly 40k across three game.

22k would be two poorly attended NZ games in Super Rugby.

Not diminishing the crowds that turned out to some NPC games. It is just completely incrorect to compare overall attendance mumbers week in and out between the two comps.

Ok, I admit I only do figures roughly, and obviously well out, I kind of take ths crowds I see an say Naki games and muliply them by 7. Never really worried enough to get into them all.. I will take your point quite happily.
I will still enjoy NPC anyway (and super). as it's all rugby for me to watch.

@Canes4life No arguments NPC is a development comp, but a good competitive one for me. I not sure how it is in Wellington or cities, but would get a mile more interest and talk etc on streets and clubs in most areas where I talk to people from.
I still think in most weekends you would get as many to NPC games (combined) as you got at super.. But talking to people on street and say at golf club, barber(where I really noticed people say NPC is all that interests me now) ,I have found people more interested in NPC. What answer is ,I not sure, but I think we tending to get disconnected sport more and more. Even the last couple of years, the fellas that followed the Wahs in NRL at gold club say yeah naa. I still support them, but don't really watch like I used to. I get impression even the soccer fellas at club (and in family) and I know , are not as fired up over it these days, cricket is even more so.
Is part of it that there is such a wide range of sports we have access too (and our apparent lack of concentration) that people are just watching highlights etc now?

@booboo said in Super Rugby 2026:

@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2026:

@canefan its going back a couple of years, but when the Drua played here in Whangarei, the Drua fans were great, signing, dancing, was a great atmosphere, but NZ grounds seem to prefer to play shitty music and kept playing it over the top of the crowd creating that faux ambience.

This needs to be emphasised and repeated.

Not just NZ and not just rugby. Classic examples at Suncorp in recent years (won't bore with specifics).

Amen, hasn't stopped according to mates over there. I think when they do it, they trying to stop you discussing game during breaks?I will say the Naki have got it right, just loud enough so kids in crowd can jump around etc, but you can still talk to person next to you.
But on this year, as this is what we discussing, should we actually be sending messages to super clubs, after a game, send an email to them and perhaps we should give them examples of how it pissed us off at game. I just thought of that as for a few years I have moaned--to mates and in a forum like this, but not to the people who running the thing, as someone who goes I sure they not coming into forums to read what a couple of dozen posters say.

@mohikamo said in Super Rugby - The Future:

@Dan54 said in Exodus:

Yep, I want to keep the NPC. Why? Because it probably the best and enjoyable comp in the country. Does it cost NZR money, yep, but I only looking at it as what I want.

Haha
The older ferners can remember when NZ did have a world class domestic rugby comp.
Big crowds, great players, great games.
So sad for the younguns; at least the olduns have the memories.

Mate I pretty keen on our domestic comp now. I prefer to to super.
Not as good as maybe could be, but I find it best we got.
Even that I would be very keen to having (as some have said) 9-10 team comp, or even the old 3 tier system. I also understand why it wouldn't work in this day or professionalism .
I also understand the idea of 9-10 teams in extended Super, but could only work with full rework of world rugby calendar (and perhaps a lot more money) . Perhaps not only moving RC to beginning of year, but also the inbound tours etc. Then go for a proper comp without stopping for tests?
Just a random thought.

@mohikamo said in Exodus:

@SouthernMann said in Exodus:

NZR and Canes well that is just dumb. Except for the fact the moat used training base for NZ high performance is... the home of the Canes out at Trentham.

Haha
But you hit the nail right on the head there.
Does the Wellington PU HP program get the use of those facilities as well?
I am assuming that at the other SR clubs, the SR PUs HP programs share the same training facilities.
There are lots of other synergies that could be made.
Not impossible to have NZR/Canes/Wellington PU admin offices in the same building!

Basically I'd see the SR element doin all the HP, and the PU element doin all the community.

It's not out of the box thinking, from comments I've seen from NZR honchos, they want to do it.
We are only talking about the SR PUs here.
The non-SR PUs will be as usual.

The most complicating factor I see is the private equity element that I think all the SR franchises have.
Although they are all minority stakes, they do seem to have some day-to-day control.
Unsure exactly how the private equity relates to NZR.
Whether NZR can just do what they want, or do they have to talk those guys around.
Maybe why it has not been done already.
No private equity in the PUs!

Yep Wellington do train at Silverstream where ABs train, mind you they like Canes and ABs and Pheonix soccer, they all pay for it. It;s a private facility. Yep but theprivate equity is what I trying to say stuffs up sharing of offices etc, WRU doen't even have any shares in Hurricanes. Not sure about other super clubs, but think most PUs have share in other them.

Well thats how it is, isn't it with super and NPC. Super is the high performnce players and the not so much are playing at NPC which is step up from club rugby.

@SouthernMann , wasn't suggesting I knew more than you etc, I suggesting perhaps some just not thinking of the different requirements of each board. Highlanders aren't there just for to help Otago save money (and how many of Highlanders are Otago players), by sharing their costs, but to operate a completely different club. bit even on vehicles , as you say car dealerships could sign one deal instead of 2, but usually they use different dealerships anyway.
If it was that simple wouldn't NZR also share offices etc with the Canes as they based in Wellington?
I being a bit facetious on last comment, but ...
Wish it was that simple though.

@mohikamo said in Exodus:

@taniwharugby said in Exodus:

Blues charge NRU to host games

Fuck, I didn't know that.
I think it is the other way round when a PU gets an AB game.
The reason why the Auckland and Canterbury PUs are so financial, because they get the most Test matches.

I wasn't aware that PUs paid for games to be taken to regions, and Blues could be different, I do know that when Canes play a game in Palmerston North, the City Council pays them a fee. Same as when Chiefs played a game in New Plymouth the city council paid them for it. I think if NRU did pay Blues , it would of been money they got ftom city council promotion fund.
Same happens with tests (same almost world over I think) the councils put money into bring events to city, not just sport.

@mohikamo said in Exodus:

@Dan54 said in Exodus:

even vehicle fleet, why double your number so both lots can use them

Uh?
You are guna halve the number of vehicles (and people) needed, with a merger between a SR Club and SR PU.
That's the whole idea.
And i'd say it is guna happen, because NZR has already said that's what they want to do.
SR clubs and SR PUs share a lot of the same players, so they can share the administrators too, no prob.
I assume they already do share to some extent.
That's how they were set up originally.
You couldn't do it if both comps ran concurrently, but they dont.

As for duplication between the Taranaki PU, a Taranaki club, and an SR club; you are right, there would be virtually none.

And vehicles how you going to halve that, I have no idea what vehicles super clubs have, but in any PU I have had anything to do with they have say 3-4 that is used by community officers who are out and about at clubs on weekends while super teams etc are playing, or perhaps the PU coach who is attending games also on days when usually super teams are playing.

@mohikamo said in Exodus:

@Dan54 said in Exodus:

even vehicle fleet, why double your number so both lots can use them

Uh?
You are guna halve the number of vehicles (and people) needed, with a merger between a SR Club and SR PU.
That's the whole idea.
And i'd say it is guna happen, because NZR has already said that's what they want to do.
SR clubs and SR PUs share a lot of the same players, so they can share the administrators too, no prob.
I assume they already do share to some extent.
That's how they were set up originally.
You couldn't do it if both comps ran concurrently, but they dont.

As for duplication between the Taranaki PU, a Taranaki club, and an SR club; you are right, there would be virtually none.

How are you going to halve the number of people etc. Well over a half of PU people are employed as community officers etc, no super clubs have anything to do with grassroots rugby.
What I meant by some not understanding the jobs of both boards, completely different.
You do know that PUs share the same players as their clubs, but there is still no way they could share administration etc. It too hard to explain to anyone if you think PUs only job is to run NPC.
How rugby is generally run in NZ is clubs run their own club (players juniors through to seniors) with assistance where needed from PU. PUs run all rugby within their area, juniors, schoolboys, seniors and their rep teams of all grades from u14s,16s,18s21s (whichever ones they have), Super clubs run their academies and teams, nothing to do with local schools etc, and as there are 5 super teams in NZ and 26 PUs , some of who have shares in super, some who don't. I could understand the idea being looked at if we had only 5 PUs, but are say Taranaki a shareholder of Chiefs going to say hey, we will help pay for Waikato's administration costs, or Horowhenua-Kapiti to say the same about helping pay for Wellington. Evem player wages for super is paid by NZR and the PUs pay most of their own. Why there so much difference in players strength in NPC .
@gt12, I have always known they have different needs and purposes, same as super clubs and NZR.
I repeat they have different jobs and it just doesn't or couldn't work even if it was as staright forward as some think, of just sharing offices, staff etc.

@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2026:

Aus rugby crowds are shit because there are either 14 people there, or a bunch of kiwis. AFL crowds are great, even 65,000 mouth-breathing Carlton supporters yelling "BAAAALLLL" every minute is an upgrade.

The Lions are good because they bring the Poms.

So basically you don't like is us kiwis at rugby mariner??
But in general I agree us and Aussies And there been plenty at tests I been at in Aus, do tend to be quiet.
I agree Lions crowds are great, and their supporters in most sports are bloody fun, look at cricket they same there, often supporting losing team, so jsut get pissed and have fun?
The AFL from what I have seen is great fun, not that I have been and only watched a few games on TV (like when Lions won first championship), it's actually a game if there was no rugby in Aus I would of followed, especially before league etc.

@SouthernMann said in Exodus:

@Dan54 said in Exodus:

@mohikamo said in Exodus:

@gt12

The first move should be to merge the admin ops of the SR clubs with Auck/Waik/Wel/Cant Otago PUs.
There must be duplication there, and this should have already been done.

I not sure there would be a lot of duplication would there? I have been on a club board and at same time a provincial board, and there was no duplication there as such and don't see as how there would be much in this case.

There are heaps of duplications that could be managed.

Academies
Promotions/marcoms
Ticketing
Leasing of office spaces
Vehicle fleet
Sponsors
Administration/payroll functions
Training aids and equipment

The list can go on. The organisation would be split into two. Professional/high performance and community. With an agreement that a certain amount of funding needs to be provided to the community game.

The same argument around rugby is occuring with local government at the moment with amalgamation. Just like rugby unions. We have far too many Councils and a lot are trying to keep the status quo.

I think maybe there is a bit of misunderstanding of how these boards operate. They quite seperate things with completely different jobs etc. And many things like ticketing are run by things like ticketek, sponsorship is same, why would a super club split sponsorship with one province in their area, even vehicle fleet, why double your number so both lots can use them, most provinces pay bugger all if anything for cars etc ,they come from sponsors etc with in region.. They really are seperate identities with such seperate needs.

@mohikamo said in Exodus:

@gt12

The first move should be to merge the admin ops of the SR clubs with Auck/Waik/Wel/Cant Otago PUs.
There must be duplication there, and this should have already been done.

I not sure there would be a lot of duplication would there? I have been on a club board and at same time a provincial board, and there was no duplication there as such and don't see as how there would be much in this case.

I think one thing we forget when the idea of taking games to other places (even in region) is how it stuffs up your season members . ie me and Mrs (like quite a few) are members at Taranaki (I realise this is super but same thing) and we have brought and paid for prem tickets at Yarrows up in New Plymouth, even if they moved games down closer to where we live, we lose seating etc. Same would happen in super, making it less attractive to become members etc wouldn't it?

@mariner4life said in Exodus:

they already have the superior game to watch (but, importantly, not play) and a fuck ton of money. I reckon they are good.

Rugby can just become for the Europeans.

You Aussies can have your f***en league if you think it superior to watch.
Rugby can stay for NZ, South Africans and Europeans.

In case you didn't realise , I think League is a shit boring game, and genuinely can't turn brain off enough to sit through a game. And don't drink enough to numb the brain to enjoy it.

@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2026:

The atmosphere at rugby games in NZ fucking sucks too. That Eden Park Bledisloe sounded like a cricket game, lots of talking with the very occasional roar. What is the actual pull to go watch in person?

I haven't found much difference in either country really mariner, but then we tend to be a bit quiet at sport in general. I haven't been to a test at Eden park since Lions in 2017, was great then, but we had the Brits ! I been to a lot of rugby in Aus too and found it the same. Was the crowd at Auck Bled especially quite, I only saw it on tv.