The Silver Fern

[quote name='BartMan']<br />
Do the first 5k in 20 minutes, even if you are feeling good.  Then the next 5k you can up pace, and you'll be there before you know it!!<br />
Even if you start out feeling shit, keep that frist 5k pace at 2:00, as you might come right anyway, even if struggling over that first few ks...<br />
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I'd always go the other way if I was trying for 10k - ie try to get to 5k in 19.30 - 19.40, then just cling on for as long as possible. Actually I'd aim for 2.5k in 9.30 & then 2m / 500m splits thru to 5k.<br />
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If I try it the other way I find I have no chance.<br />
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That said I haven't done 10k this year  <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[quote name='cyclopath']<br />
Forgot to post this 2 weeks ago - 19:45.7 for the 5k. Since had bronchitis <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> Not game to take the beast on again yet.<br />
Oct 2nd to be precise.<br />
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Thats proper fast, crap timing of the illness tho! I haven't done a decent time in months, blame the cricket, the champions league & the WC, I've been cylcing so I can watch the gym TV instead. Nothing much to watch now....Â

[quote name='BartMan']<br />
new PB for 10k, [i]eclipsing [/i]old one by .2 of a second....<br />
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35:52.7<br />
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Is there an international standard for 10km? Same way there is for 2km? Cause thats ridiculously fast... be interested to know what the pros rip thru that in.

[quote name='BartMan']<br />
Well done!  Always good to get under the 'industry standard'!!<br />
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Try a few 6km pieces, it is amazing how quick you will get to 5k on the way to the 6.  and when you sit to go for a 5k time, you will have much more in the tank as you go into that last 1000m.<br />
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Yeah that does work a treat, you get used to doing even fairly slow 30 minutes or 10kms or 8kms & then you go back & do a 5km & kick the crap out of your PB<br />
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Top work getting under 20 mins, even better on the new C2's because they have the memory on them & in a gym you can look & mentally section yourself off from everyone else, sod all people do sub 20min 5k's.  <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

19:01.6<br />
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Yes, 1.6 seconds off getting under 19 minutes for only the 3rd time ever  <br />
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Got 300m out & was doing 1:46 & just needed that to hit 18:58 & then realised I was going to pass out if I didn't ease off. Never a good look.

[quote name='BartMan']<br />
Yeah Mog, or get a bit of maintenance done on it - that would probably be cheaper!!<br />
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Fuller - great for fitness - no impact on your ankles / body.<br />
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Instead of that long 40 minute run, do a row.  But for your shorters stuff - you still gotta run, get your muscles used to running as well as rowing - but would have to help fitness in general..<br />
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All I do is row & bike, I played touch the other night, did a sprint & my quad totally seized up. Realised I probably haven't run in a year. Everyone went "yeah, YOU'RE fit you broken muppet". It was not good. <br />
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[quote name='Fullermorg']<br />
Mt fitness is piss porr after 5 months not being able to run, but looking at your times shows just how much i am unfit!<br />
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Its really all in the rhythm eh, its very similar to swiming, if you get the action right & smooth you can just cruise along, if you action is all over the place its pretty much impossible, most people give it up without ever getting the action right, timing knees & hands so they don't colide or worse so you have to do some weird camel hump in the stroke REALLY seems to throw people

[quote name='BartMan']<br />
yeah, my 7 million plus metre rower is certainly harder to row on - but a good training machine now - when I hit the gym ones, it is lightning on wheels!!  or rollers and spinning wheels things...<br />
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Might have to look at upgrading my home rower when finances permit!!<br />
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Can you just tighten the chain up on them? Thats always what seems to go

Nothing is easy at the moment, summer has kicked in & its all hard work. <br />
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Using a gym too you realise how important it is to get a rower that has a tight smooth running chain, getting on a shit rower can destroy your whole time. My gym has 2 great ones & 2 someone has fecked the hell out of

Personally I find its best to row a loooong time but really just cruise, do 11 or 12km a lot, then only do 1 sprint a month, then when you drop down to doing a lower distance you have a lot more endurance. 2000m its all about power, 10k its all about how fit you are, unless you are doing mental times (ie Bart) then its all about being part bison or something.<br />
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If bison rowed.<br />
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Also the only way I ever get a decent time is to slog my guts out as hard as I can for the first half then crawl for the rest. Every time I've got under 40 minutes I've hit 5k in 19.30 or less, that way pchycologically I've been going hard out & 3500m at 2.04 seems quite nice & easy. Then I worry about the last 1.5k when I get there. Its all about thinking in your head "ok, I'm x second up". And I never count down from 10km, that "projected time" thing shits me.

Yay a decent time, but still really only just crawled there, 7.22 for the first 2k, 19.15 for the 5km & then had to do 1.50 for the last 500m to get under 40m. I'll try again in about a month.

[quote name='Duluth']<br />
Fark thats a big improvment on your old times. Are you doing something different with your technique or are you just rowing more often?<br />
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I assume your 10k of 42mins won't stand for much longer..<br />
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The 42's not a PB, I've done a few 39.40's just not recently. Probably just need to easy off at the 4km mark & coast for 5km or so to break 40 again, rather than carry on flat out & be trashed. <br />
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What I've started doing gain lately (well last 2 months) is weights, used to just purely row, hadn't done weights in about 2 years so I guess that'll help as in that time I've been rowing 30 - 50 minutes (usually I just do 10km) 6 days a week, so my fitness is up & now I'm getting a bit more strength too. <br />
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More than anything I think its just the fitness. <br />
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Basically I'm a shortarse - 5 foot 6, so I'm never going to be fast over a short distance so I've always just tried to do the long stuff but I guess ultimately once you get the fitness up you can go flat out for longer over the short times. Buggered if I know really.  <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Well I really don't know whether to be happy or not. Twice in the last week I have sat down & gone "I am doing a sub 40 minute 10km" (for the first time in ages) & both times I have done a PB 5km & stopped to avoid throwing up  <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /><br />
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Never ever thought I would break 19 minutes but then I did genuinely come very very close to chucking in doing so, and after sitting for 5 minutes to get my heart rate down from 180 left the gym very slowly...  Â

Pitful but there you go, I actually find myself happy these days hitting a nice round 42 minutes. <br />
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Will have to get all keen (ie have either a poser or a hot chick next to me) & try do sub 40 without shitting a kidney

Your better off only doing a very brief cardio workout before weights - ie literally 3 or 4 minutes very low resistance on a rower just to loosen up, if you do 20 minutes of cardio then do weights you'll be doing less weights, either do your main cardio after the weights or on alternate days.<br />
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Same way if your cardio is rowing then make sure you have it set waaaay down on 3 or 4, otherwise you do arms day, trash your arms, then on your recovery day row for 20 minutes on 10 & your arms don't recover.<br />
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Re triceps & biceps same day it depends how heavily you are working out if you are lifting big weights I'd do them different days - the push/pull days thing works really well with big weights - ie pull muscles like your biceps one day, push muscles like your tris another.<br />
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The incline bech is good cause it really hits muscles you don't ever use, but I think you'll get more long term by doing say 2 sets at incline, 2 sets at 10 degrees, 2 sets at 25 degrees etc.<br />
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[quote name='Hooroo']<br />
[quote]Then do dips & that thing where you put one knee & hand on a bench & lift big dumbell with other arm. I have no idea what this is called, but s long as you do it nice & slow & very controlled its a top exercise.<br />
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Bent over Row .. I think<br />
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Sounds right yeah, nice simple exercise that does good things

Get on a bench, set it at about 75 degrees, do curls with dumb bells, then do shoulder press / bench with dumb bells. Then put it to 60 degrees, do the bench press, then 45 degrees & do again, then 30 degrees, etc. Tho as you get flatter you are more working your chest & less your shoulders.<br />
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Then do dips & that thing where you put one knee & hand on a bench & lift big dumbell with other arm. I have no idea what this is called, but s long as you do it nice & slow & very controlled its a top exercise.<br />
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Really, for Triceps nothing beats dips.<br />
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Ideally do the arms, then the shoulders another. Throw in some cable rows & chin ups on arm day Most people do an arms day & then a shoulders/back day then a chest day with cardio on intervening days, or a push day then a pull day. Tho' really at the beginning theres no reason not to just do 3 days a week of general upper body - curls, dips, chin ups, shoulder & bench press, flies. Then as you get stronger, your weights get bigger & your recovery gets longer split it out.<br />
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Theres lots of different things you get told to do to target all the muscles, but really it mostly over complicates, Chin ups, curls & dips are the easiest & most simple exercises around & if you do them you get big arms. Same with shoulders using dumbells on a bench. Plus they have the bonus that they are very hard to screw up & break something (so long as you do the curls on the bench & both arms at the same time). <br />
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I'm forever seeing people waving dumbells about behind their head while bent over backwards because it targets their something muscle, when really the effect is barely noticiable except in their spine which is snapping & their anterior which is slowly being torn, same with people doing alternating curls while standing up & swaying from side to side.

[quote name='Hooroo']<br />
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Nah it's not, it's working.  Shows what you know<br />
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Congrats, you've managed to go entirely against every training plan ever, including the Polar, Nike & Suunto heart rate monitor webistes & every personal trainer I've ever spoken too  <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /><br />
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Realistically you do an hour of cardio you will lose weight, no matter how you do it, but if your main goal is you want to lose weight you need to crank down your heart rate, otherwise you are just waisting half your workout<br />
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[url="http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/fitness/hrm.asp"]http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/fitness/hrm.asp[/url]<br />
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Key Target Zones <br />
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60-70% of max HR Good for weight loss, building endurance or recovery <br />
70-80% " " "  Good for improving cardiovascular fitness <br />
80%+ " " " Interval workouts <br />
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Example:<br />
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Gerry is 45 years old, wants to lose weight, and exercises three days a week, sometimes for 10 minutes, sometimes for 20 minutes and is just not sure how hard to go. <br />
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*Her estimated max heart rate is 220-(age) 45=175<br />
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The recommended target zone is 60-70 % <br />
60% of 175=105<br />
70% of 175=123<br />
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Gerryâ€s target zone is 105-123<br />
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Gerry should exercise three days a week for at least 30 minutes and keep her heart rate between 105 and 123 for effective weight loss. IT'S THAT SIMPLE!<br />
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ditto -<br />
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[url="http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/heart_rate_monitor_faq.html"]http://www.heartratemonitor.co.uk/heart ... r_faq.html[/url]<br />
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etc<br />
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ditto any decent personal trainer & every single heart rate manufacturer without exception

[quote name='Hooroo']<br />
I was told by my trainer for maximum fat burn to keep my heart rate up over 163 for my entore workout (approx 60 minutes) But by fuck is it hard.  Half the reason I collapsed I guess.  Felt great after though<br />
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Thats insane, its the opposite, you want to burn fat you need your heart rate down at only 65% - so around 135 for someone 31, its all a trade off between fitness & fat, higher you go the more you will build up your cardio & the less fat you burn. <br />
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You wanna burn fat get on a rower & hold your rate at 130 beats a minute for half an hour, you wanna get fit do 2 minute bursts cranking your rate up to 160, then coast for 30 seconds, then just keep doing that till you pass out.

[quote name='PdP']<br />
Either that or a little Heroin and/or Crack Cocaine addiction. That'd take care of you love handles in no time.<br />
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Thats true - Iggy Pop, Pete Doherty, David Bowie - not a man boob anywhere.<br />
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Buy a heart rate monitor, BEST. THING. EVER.<br />
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Stops you wasting time - none of the heart rate doodahs on any gym equipment are acurate.