All Blacks 2025
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean Jordie Barrett and Will Jordan are outstanding, so is Cam Roigard when he's fit. Options beyond that are rather thin.
I can't helping them we need to be a bit braver at picking backs who impress in Super Rugby and the NPC ahead of old staggers.
That's just individual brilliance at the moment though from JB, Jordan and Roigard. Im talking about a functional coordinated attack. A collective.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Is it fair to say the current backline is the worst of the twenties? Just seems to have gone from bad to worse in the Razor era.
Luckily we have one of the strongest 1 to 6 this century and depth there too
Savea 7 , Sititi 8 and Roigard 9. You can just about make a case 1 to 9.
Not even close to this century I'd say. Debatable even this decade.
There were lots of periods this century when our tight five was mediocre. 2010 to 2017 was great. Lots of mediocrity for the rest of the time.
Our scrum, lineout and maul are keeping us in games while our backs squander good ball or are off the field with ill discipline.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Sometimes I think JB kicking it 60m down town would be a good option.
Sometimes?
Ok, all day
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Is it fair to say the current backline is the worst of the twenties? Just seems to have gone from bad to worse in the Razor era.
Luckily we have one of the strongest 1 to 6 this century and depth there too
Savea 7 , Sititi 8 and Roigard 9. You can just about make a case 1 to 9.
Not even close to this century I'd say. Debatable even this decade.
There were lots of periods this century when our tight five was mediocre. 2010 to 2017 was great. Lots of mediocrity for the rest of the time.
Our scrum, lineout and maul are keeping us in games while our backs squander good ball or are off the field with ill discipline.
Oh right ok, I'll concede that if you pick out all the mediocre tight 5's this century, this would be one of the strongest. Glad we got that sorted.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
TBF, no matches matter until the return of Atua Mo'unga in late 2026.
And TBF that's exactly how Mo'unga feels, and I'm not having a dig at him there as he's chasing the money like most people do in life. He doesn't value the AB tests between world cups so chooses to go and make as much money as he can in that time. Then in WC year he comes swooning back in to be eligible for that, and then leaves again straight after. It takes us down the path of anything outside of the WC is just a friendly if more and more players start doing the same thing.
And our idiot coach has just indulged this bullshit instead of trying to help protect NZ rugby from overseas clubs taking all of our talent from local competitions.
Maybe this is the way of the future, players coming and going will then morph into open eligibility. I am dead against it and I hope not. But Razor clearly doesn't give a crap about the status quo as a way to protect the jersey, and for what? It's not like he's rolling over for Dan Carter
And for what?
He wants to gibe himself and the team the best chance to win the RWC.
More power to him mate. Because if we dont give Razor all the resoirce he needs to win and the boks win again. We are going to have to put up with wven more shit from the saffas. Fuxk that
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life that's not really true, Dalton sat behind McCaw and Cane, the AB captains, and post Cane's retirement he's had scant little chances. He was strong for the Blues this year and is well suited to test footy, it beggars belief he wouldn't even be in the squad.
Lol he never sat behind McCaw and he’s had 36 appearances for the ABs, plenty of time to push for a starting jersey. If he was so suited to test rugby he would still be in the squad, obviously lacks a few ingredients in his game that the coaches are after. For me he never really dominated at test level, a bit like Blackadder. No point selecting the same blokes and expecting different results.
There are a lot of Dalton fans on this Fern which is fine because on form he’s good but you can’t argue against the other guys who have been selected, they’ve played better this year.
Maybe the best thing for him is to fight his way back into the ABs and earn that jersey again. Kudos to him if he does.
He is young enough to adjust his game and make it back in. Would be a good test of chatscter if it he can do. Could be the making of him
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina I:
TBF, no matches matter until the return of Atua Mo'unga in late 2026.
And TBF that's exactly how Mo'unga feels, and I'm not having a dig at him there as he's chasing the money like most people do in life. He doesn't value the AB tests between world cups so chooses to go and make as much money as he can in that time. Then in WC year he comes swooning back in to be eligible for that, and then leaves again straight after. It takes us down the path of anything outside of the WC is just a friendly if more and more players start doing the same thing.
And our idiot coach has just indulged this bullshit instead of trying to help protect NZ rugby from overseas clubs taking all of our talent from local competitions.
Maybe this is the way of the future, players coming and going will then morph into open eligibility. I am dead against it and I hope not. But Razor clearly doesn't give a crap about the status quo as a way to protect the jersey, and for what? It's not like he's rolling over for Dan Carter
And for what?
He wants to gibe himself and the team the best chance to win the RWC.
More power to him mate. Because if we dont give Razor all the resoirce he needs to win and the boks win again. We are going to have to put up with wven more shit from the saffas. Fuxk that
We will see what kind of condition Richie M is in when he gets back, then we will see what. I will be pleasantly surprised if he comes back a superior player compared to when he left
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
the tight 5 looks good, and, more importantly, seems to have a bit of depth about it.
3 deep in the front row. Locks looking good, not quite 3 deep.
The pack is coming together. Its our main weapon this RWC cycle which is great as a big forward pack, great set piece goes a long way to lifting a world cup
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yeah, with a solid set piece, you can select any game plan you please
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
Paddy Tups with a fractured scull. Won’t see him again this year I suspect.
Why are we getting so many injuries this year? Massive blow.
It's not just the ABs.
Wallabies lost Piestch and Wilson to injury on the weekend on top of Valetini, Tupou, Lynagh, Lolesio, Donaldson etc etc
Boks for this weekend are without Siya Kolisi , Arendse, Van der Merwe and Du Toit who all got injured from last weekend.
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@KiwiMurph bigger faster and harder players (as in muscle mass as opposed to fatty lumps)
Remember when a forward pack was only around 800kg, now, they regularly tick over 900kg and the shapes of those in modern packs are much more athletic and powerful than those from yesteryear, a consequence of better diet and training.
I always marvel at the fact one of our great AB backs in history (granted it was 100 years ago) in Bert Cooke, would be too small for most school teams nowadays, reputedly weighing in under 70kg.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life that's not really true, Dalton sat behind McCaw and Cane, the AB captains, and post Cane's retirement he's had scant little chances. He was strong for the Blues this year and is well suited to test footy, it beggars belief he wouldn't even be in the squad.
Lol he never sat behind McCaw and he’s had 36 appearances for the ABs, plenty of time to push for a starting jersey. If he was so suited to test rugby he would still be in the squad, obviously lacks a few ingredients in his game that the coaches are after. For me he never really dominated at test level, a bit like Blackadder. No point selecting the same blokes and expecting different results.
There are a lot of Dalton fans on this Fern which is fine because on form he’s good but you can’t argue against the other guys who have been selected, they’ve played better this year.
Maybe the best thing for him is to fight his way back into the ABs and earn that jersey again. Kudos to him if he does.
Your argument seems to centre around if Dalton was good enough he'd be in the squad, which is a poor argument to say the least. This coaching group has made a number of poor selections when it comes to the loose forwards, and they were a huge point of weakness for us last year as a result.
Yes Dalton has played 36 tests behind the AB captain, many off the bench. After Cane's retirement he was the obvious replacement but has not had a chance to show what he can do with a extended run of matches in the jersey. You know, that extended run of matches you keep calling for Canes players when they don't immediately make the step up?
It's obvious you didn't watch many Blues games this year too as Dalton was one of their best. It's pretty debatable who was better between Kirifi and Dalton as they are pretty different players, but Dalton is obviously much better suited to the the "big mans" game test footy. If Kirifi is not getting his turnovers, what exactly does he bring at test level? He sure ain't winning any collisions.
My frustration with the coaches is it's taking them a very long time to learn that players like Kirifi and Blackadder are always going to struggle with the collisions against the big sides, and we'll be put under pressure as a result. A trio of Vaa'i - Dalton - Ardie would look a lot stronger.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life that's not really true, Dalton sat behind McCaw and Cane, the AB captains, and post Cane's retirement he's had scant little chances. He was strong for the Blues this year and is well suited to test footy, it beggars belief he wouldn't even be in the squad.
Lol he never sat behind McCaw and he’s had 36 appearances for the ABs, plenty of time to push for a starting jersey. If he was so suited to test rugby he would still be in the squad, obviously lacks a few ingredients in his game that the coaches are after. For me he never really dominated at test level, a bit like Blackadder. No point selecting the same blokes and expecting different results.
There are a lot of Dalton fans on this Fern which is fine because on form he’s good but you can’t argue against the other guys who have been selected, they’ve played better this year.
Maybe the best thing for him is to fight his way back into the ABs and earn that jersey again. Kudos to him if he does.
Your argument seems to centre around if Dalton was good enough he'd be in the squad, which is a poor argument to say the least. This coaching group has made a number of poor selections when it comes to the loose forwards, and they were a huge point of weakness for us last year as a result.
Yes Dalton has played 36 tests behind the AB captain, many off the bench. After Cane's retirement he was the obvious replacement but has not had a chance to show what he can do with a extended run of matches in the jersey. You know, that extended run of matches you keep calling for Canes players when they don't immediately make the step up?
It's obvious you didn't watch many Blues games this year too as Dalton was one of their best. It's pretty debatable who was better between Kirifi and Dalton as they are pretty different players, but Dalton is obviously much better suited to the the "big mans" game test footy. If Kirifi is not getting his turnovers, what exactly does he bring at test level? He sure ain't winning any collisions.
My frustration with the coaches is it's taking them a very long time to learn that players like Kirifi and Blackadder are always going to struggle with the collisions against the big sides, and we'll be put under pressure as a result. A trio of Vaa'i - Dalton - Ardie would look a lot stronger.
I think both Dalton and Kirifi are missing ingredients in their game that we need for this AB team to flourish. I've made it quite clear that Kirifi is on borrowed time and Lakai should take his spot when fit, out of all our options Lakai seems to have the best all round game that will suit the style of rugby we want to play. He's bigger, more powerful and he showed in 2024 that he can do everything that Kirifi did in 2025 playing 7. He's just a much better and more natural athlete, he's built like a brick shithouse and he's got that power game in the carry that will help us get on the front foot as well. Lakai is probably the happy medium between the bigger Papali'i and the smaller Kirifi, I'm really hoping he flourishes because like 13, 7 has been a real problem area for the ABs of late. Savea for me clearly starts at 7 though when Sititi comes back in (assuming that will be this week).
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@Canes4life yeah am with you there, Lakai has serious potential, I think he has a higher ceiling than either player. I just think we'd be better off with Dalton right now as we have battled to win the breakdown collisions of late.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life yeah am with you there, Lakai has serious potential, I think he has a higher ceiling than either player. I just think we'd be better off with Dalton right now as we have battled to win the breakdown collisions of late.
I'm not trying to hate on Dalton as I'm a fan of his style of play but I guess he just loses out right now because the AB coaches preference of player in that area. I tend to agree that Kirifi should really only be on the field if we have two bigger loosies partnering him, Kirifi + Savea just doesn't work against those bigger packs. I'm hoping Lakai starts to show his potential at test level and I'm sure Dalton will get another opportunity when injuries strike. They clearly see him in front of Blackadder considering he came in for that last French test.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life yeah am with you there, Lakai has serious potential, I think he has a higher ceiling than either player. I just think we'd be better off with Dalton right now as we have battled to win the breakdown collisions of late.
Last weekend, apart from the third quarter, I thought we did well at ruck and maul time. Kirifi isn't the answer, but I thought he put in a solid shift. I'm still hoping that Parker could be the answer at 6, and I'd like Dalton to switch to 6 in future to see how he goes
