All Blacks 2025
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
I agree, I genuinely think the ABs have been held hostage for the last decade by the Barret brothers.
Scott should not be captain or starting yet he is.
Beauden should not be the starting 10 or possibly in the 23 yet he is.
Jordie might be the worst..in the sense he's kinda like an asymptomatic illness. He has the best form of the 3, probably has the best shout of being a starter out of all 3, and he's actually a great player in general...but his specific play style and skillset at 12 is a MASSIVE hindrance to the entire AB attack.
He is not agile, not really quick of hand, not an amazing passer, and doesn't have the first instinct to create space for others but rather to take contact.
It just reminds me of the Wallabies 15+ years ago, when I would just sit back and feel extremely happy seeing Reece Hodge against us, such a limited predictable player, and wondering how he kept starting for Australia over genuinely terrifying alternative options like Berrick Barnes.
So I'm happy you brought this up, because I've always pondered that there must be so many Bok/Wallaby fans extremely elated and astounded to see the ABs continue with BB/Jordie/Rieko, and just sit back cautiously riding out this wave as long as possible before the jig is up.
I think that is a tad unfair on Jordie, who I think has been the best brother of the three this season, by quite some margin.
On Saturday he was the player with the most touches/involvements in the try - 4.
First, he gets across the gainline initially having spun out of a tackle and taking two defenders to bring him down. Then when the ball swings back to De groot it's gets spilled and Jordie cleans it up and passes out of pressure because the bok prop (Ox) is bearing down on him. Then the third time he touches it he gets man and ball (Kolisi) and gets the ball away. Lastly, he steps in at halfback in the final sequence.
So his overall involvement was a carry over the gainline, two passes to the left, one to the right, both the passes in midfield were made with a bok right in his face.
Jordie saved their bacon with the try saver on Kolbe and he was the player that ran the full length of the pitch on the try intercept that stopped Kolbe going under the posts so that the conversion could be as hard as possible. Whatever his faults I never doubt Jordies integrity and his commitment to the ABs. He doesn't give up on any play.
I just don't see him as the liability that others do. I think Scott has the worst form of all the locks that have played this year and for every good thing BB does he does 3 or 4 pointless things.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
I agree, I genuinely think the ABs have been held hostage for the last decade by the Barret brothers.
Scott should not be captain or starting yet he is.
Beauden should not be the starting 10 or possibly in the 23 yet he is.
Jordie might be the worst..in the sense he's kinda like an asymptomatic illness. He has the best form of the 3, probably has the best shout of being a starter out of all 3, and he's actually a great player in general...but his specific play style and skillset at 12 is a MASSIVE hindrance to the entire AB attack.
He is not agile, not really quick of hand, not an amazing passer, and doesn't have the first instinct to create space for others but rather to take contact.
It just reminds me of the Wallabies 15+ years ago, when I would just sit back and feel extremely happy seeing Reece Hodge against us, such a limited predictable player, and wondering how he kept starting for Australia over genuinely terrifying alternative options like Berrick Barnes.
So I'm happy you brought this up, because I've always pondered that there must be so many Bok/Wallaby fans extremely elated and astounded to see the ABs continue with BB/Jordie/Rieko, and just sit back cautiously riding out this wave as long as possible before the jig is up.
I think that is a tad unfair on Jordie, who I think has been the best brother of the three this season, by quite some margin.
On Saturday he was the player with the most touches/involvements in the try - 4.
First, he gets across the gainline initially having spun out of a tackle and taking two defenders to bring him down. Then when the ball swings back to De groot it's gets spilled and Jordie cleans it up and passes out of pressure because the bok prop (Ox) is bearing down on him. Then the third time he touches it he gets man and ball (Kolisi) and gets the ball away. Lastly, he steps in at halfback in the final sequence.
So his overall involvement was a carry over the gainline, two passes to the left, one to the right, both the passes in midfield were made with a bok right in his face.
Jordie saved their bacon with the try saver on Kolbe and he was the player that ran the full length of the pitch on the try intercept that stopped Kolbe going under the posts so that the conversion could be as hard as possible. Whatever his faults I never doubt Jordies integrity and his commitment to the ABs. He doesn't give up on any play.
I just don't see him as the liability that others do. I think Scott has the worst form of all the locks that have played this year and for every good thing BB does he does 3 or 4 pointless things.
I agree Jordie is easily the best Barret and most deserving of a starting role.
It's more the circumstance of his specific skillset and playstyle at the 12 position may end up being the biggest bottleneck for the AB attack.
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MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
I wish they'd just pick Reuben Love at 10 and let him develop into the role.
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
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@kiwiinmelb Reckon the Savea - Kolisi friendship is documented well enough. I remember SBW going to dinner with an Argie on the 2017 doc. We get it. The game needs more Ioanes and Sextons.
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@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
'Liability in big games...', like against Ireland last year?
When he led us to our first win in Dublin in nearly a decade? Against the number 1 team in the world?
Or when he came off the bench and led us to a win against England at Twickenham?
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
'Liability in big games...', like against Ireland last year?
When he led us to our first win in Dublin in nearly a decade? Against the number 1 team in the world?
Or when he came off the bench and led us to a win against England at Twickenham?
Three super rugby finals in a row he's been useless.... and a bunch of test matches last year (he was deservedly dropped)
We won that Ireland game because |reland made a shitload of handling errors..
We were lucky to win that England game, thanks to Mark Telea and England missing that penalty at the end.
Mackenzie was dropped for a reason last year, he's a selfish player who can't control a tight game.
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@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
I wish they'd just pick Reuben Love at 10 and let him develop into the role.
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
Mckenzie didn't play 10 on the weekend, and he was a shitload better than the guy who did.
Oh and he also played a shitload better than the usual fullback, who was godawful.I do agree that Mounga can fuck right off, and that Love should get some meaningful game time.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
I wish they'd just pick Reuben Love at 10 and let him develop into the role.
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
Mckenzie didn't play 10 on the weekend, and he was a shitload better than the guy who did.
Oh and he also played a shitload better than the usual fullback, who was godawful.I do agree that Mounga can fuck right off, and that Love should get some meaningful game time.
I'm not comparing Mackenzie to Beauden..... As far as I'm concerned we dont win a word cup with either of them at 10.
Time to move on.
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hopefully not paywalled
Robertson's publicist gives as a heads up with what's coming -
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
Id be friends with no one until career over.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
Id be friends with no one until career over.
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
In both the Buenos Aries loss and the Wellington one this year you can see moments where players are getting to an extent bullied and there's not really a reaction. Its like the abs now are overly concerned with being nice.
It wouldn't matter if they were winning all the time but it's evident teams neither respect nor fear the abs right now and I don't think prior generations would stand for that the way the 2025 crop are.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
I agree, I genuinely think the ABs have been held hostage for the last decade by the Barret brothers.
Scott should not be captain or starting yet he is.
Beauden should not be the starting 10 or possibly in the 23 yet he is.
Jordie might be the worst..in the sense he's kinda like an asymptomatic illness. He has the best form of the 3, probably has the best shout of being a starter out of all 3, and he's actually a great player in general...but his specific play style and skillset at 12 is a MASSIVE hindrance to the entire AB attack.
He is not agile, not really quick of hand, not an amazing passer, and doesn't have the first instinct to create space for others but rather to take contact.
It just reminds me of the Wallabies 15+ years ago, when I would just sit back and feel extremely happy seeing Reece Hodge against us, such a limited predictable player, and wondering how he kept starting for Australia over genuinely terrifying alternative options like Berrick Barnes.
So I'm happy you brought this up, because I've always pondered that there must be so many Bok/Wallaby fans extremely elated and astounded to see the ABs continue with BB/Jordie/Rieko, and just sit back cautiously riding out this wave as long as possible before the jig is up.
I think that is a tad unfair on Jordie, who I think has been the best brother of the three this season, by quite some margin.
On Saturday he was the player with the most touches/involvements in the try - 4.
First, he gets across the gainline initially having spun out of a tackle and taking two defenders to bring him down. Then when the ball swings back to De groot it's gets spilled and Jordie cleans it up and passes out of pressure because the bok prop (Ox) is bearing down on him. Then the third time he touches it he gets man and ball (Kolisi) and gets the ball away. Lastly, he steps in at halfback in the final sequence.
So his overall involvement was a carry over the gainline, two passes to the left, one to the right, both the passes in midfield were made with a bok right in his face.
Jordie saved their bacon with the try saver on Kolbe and he was the player that ran the full length of the pitch on the try intercept that stopped Kolbe going under the posts so that the conversion could be as hard as possible. Whatever his faults I never doubt Jordies integrity and his commitment to the ABs. He doesn't give up on any play.
I just don't see him as the liability that others do. I think Scott has the worst form of all the locks that have played this year and for every good thing BB does he does 3 or 4 pointless things.
I agree Jordie is easily the best Barret and most deserving of a starting role.
It's more the circumstance of his specific skillset and playstyle at the 12 position may end up being the biggest bottleneck for the AB attack.
For sure the coaches have got to figure out the backline because I feel like it succeeds just based on individual brilliance here and there.
A Will Jordan step, a BB cross kick, a Jordie pass, not because it is a well oiled machine. Its 7 individuals coming up with stuff here and there based on talent and muscle memory.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
Id be friends with no one until career over.
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
In both the Buenos Aries loss and the Wellington one this year you can see moments where players are getting to an extent bullied and there's not really a reaction. Its like the abs now are overly concerned with being nice.
It wouldn't matter if they were winning all the time but it's evident teams neither respect nor fear the abs right now and I don't think prior generations would stand for that the way the 2025 crop are.
Seven tries in his first two tests probably helped break the ice somewhat.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
Id be friends with no one until career over.
One thing I noticed this younger generation just don't have that same intensity and edge like the older ones.
Its even down to stuff like I heard Cully said the old schoolers like Zinny and Fitzy really would not give the newbies like him the time of day until they had established themselves.
In both the Buenos Aries loss and the Wellington one this year you can see moments where players are getting to an extent bullied and there's not really a reaction. Its like the abs now are overly concerned with being nice.
It wouldn't matter if they were winning all the time but it's evident teams neither respect nor fear the abs right now and I don't think prior generations would stand for that the way the 2025 crop are.
There is no edge in the squad and hasnt been for ages.
Remember when some of the players went to Robinson's room to tell him they were sticking by Fozzie and not to sack him.
The fucking cheek of them when you think about it.
They should be worried about losing their place in the team not choosing who their coach is.
The loyalty to Fozzie while admirable, spoke to a subconscious belief amongst them that they themselves are bigger than the coach/the team/the entity/ the brand.
You lads worry about playing and winning some games and let the higher ups worry about who they will give the reins to. They have to answer to sponsors and other corporate KPI's.
When you read Cullens book he was essentially bullied for the first part of his career. They all were.
Our body language on the field is conciliatory, passive and dare I say Beta.
When was the last time one of our boys started a bit of a blue. Not throw a punch, but grab a collar and roll around on the ground and have to be separated by team mates with a follow up chat from the ref.
Kolisi is going around pressing the flesh like an ambassador while his locks hookers and scrum half are touching us up and pushing us around on the regular.
We are not happening to the game, the game is happening to us.
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@restofit said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I've felt Holland has been out of his depth ever since he automatically got the head coaching gig at the Canes, was even more baffled when Razor wanted him on his team.
Holland was assistant coach to Canterbury at the same time as Razor. Razor seems to be a relationship guy - he trusts people he has known for some time. It's great, but only if they are actually really good coaches.
Which Holland has proven he’s not.
Holland is the strike play coach, no? Out of all the coaches this year, he’s been earning his corn off first phase. Not a great deal he can do if the team can’t win good first phase ball. They did in the first test against Boks and they carved them open for 2 tries. That suggests some degree of good coaching, no?
Bryn Evans has been responsible for most of the All Blacks tries off set-piece this year, there was a recent article that detailed the difference Evans has made to the strike plays, which were a real weaknesses for us last year & Razor bringing in Evans is the best thing he's done all tenure - that wrap around try off the back of the scrum in Wellington was a play Evans used previously at the Hurricanes.
I am not sure about that Evans is in charge of the line outs and they have not been great.
Holland was also involved in that strike move as it was from a line out involving the backs..
And that is really the only strike move I have seen that has come off in the last 4 tests. -
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
I'm hopeful that this one season thing isn't the actual plan and it's more based around the possibility that things might not unfold as Richie (or Razor) might hope.
Because, if that really is the plan - to swan in play the RWC and fuck off - then he should have been told to fuck off.
And I say that as one of Richie's biggest fans on here.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
I'm hopeful that this one season thing isn't the actual plan and it's more based around the possibility that things might not unfold as Richie (or Razor) might hope.
Because, if that really is the plan - to swan in play the RWC and fuck off - then he should have been told to fuck off.
And I say that as one of Richie's biggest fans on here.
saying no to coming back this year (and playing two seasons before the RWC) but accepting coming back....we assume as he currently gets paid more?....is more than enough for me to tell him to F off
