All Blacks 2025
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
What strikes me most when I watch the All Blacks, it’s that their players seem engulfed, twisted in a stereotypical game, a game whose relevance can often be doubted given the countless munitions won and immediately given back to their opponents. It is quite the opposite, for example, of Australia that plays 'freely', and whose players seem completely confident and much better than in their respective franchises.
That is a great observation.
In the rugby championship this year the Wallabies are playing with bags of confidence and in a spirit of adventurism.
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@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
Not a Jordie fan then? You aren’t a Bulls fan are you?
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@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
Defensively Jordie has probably been the best AB back this test season which is not much of an accomplishment given the low bar but he is at least capable of coming up with a key play or moment that stifles an opposition attack. He has certainly bailed out his teammates on a number of occasions and is the only player that I have seen deal with high balls semi competently. Again, a low bar but I don't think anyone else has been better dealing with contestable kicks. He is also able to get across the gain line here and there.
He might be better utilized somewhere else in the backline but I dont see how if you drop him it doesn't get worse.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2025:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2025:
Apologies if it’s been posted already but this did not make for good reading. Two worst ever this year. We need a new defensive coach.
It's all good according to Tamati. Nothing to worry about.
All Blacks’ defence coach talks record-setting defensive struggles
The All Blacks have claimed yet more unwanted history with their 43-10 defeat to the Springboks, but don't slot the record books back onto the shelf just yet, because more looks to be on the way.
That's some disturbing reading. I feel I'm being gaslight as my eyes tell me whatever Ellison is saying clearly isn't working.
Obviously you're not connecting the moments well enough.
By connecting the moments with the right body language you build the momentum to success.
Jesus fucking wept. At this point I'd take Jamie Joseph regardless of results just to hear someone use a normal fucking sentence that makes sense.
The new system’s goal is to win the ball back, knowing the All Blacks are at their most dangerous with turnover ball in unstructured play. The coach said that emphasis is “massive”, not just in the breakdown, but in all areas of the game.
Jesus. We're living in the 2000's again (or trying to). Not convinced this works - our try at the weekend was superb, but it was not a quick strike off turnover ball
It's like an Onion skit.
"We're really good when we get the ball back!
So first we have to give the ball away and then try to get it back."
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
I've felt Holland has been out of his depth ever since he automatically got the head coaching gig at the Canes, was even more baffled when Razor wanted him on his team.
Holland was assistant coach to Canterbury at the same time as Razor. Razor seems to be a relationship guy - he trusts people he has known for some time. It's great, but only if they are actually really good coaches.
Which Holland has proven he’s not.
Holland is the strike play coach, no? Out of all the coaches this year, he’s been earning his corn off first phase. Not a great deal he can do if the team can’t win good first phase ball. They did in the first test against Boks and they carved them open for 2 tries. That suggests some degree of good coaching, no?
Scott Hansen is in charge of the AB attack. Methinks it is him that the majority of the ire needs to be directed at.
The Eddie jones article that is floating around really hits the nail on the head in terms of the all blacks attack. Barrett isn’t/can’t operate as a first receiver. Components with the fact our other option at 10 is a 80kg midget who can’t take the line on when it’s set. So it puts an enormous amount of pressure on our outside backs.
Any defence going up against knows there is no running threat at 10 - either because Barrett won’t or McKenzie can’t bend it in contact.
That leaves pass and kick to cover. Too easy.
McKenzie is clearly a running threat. He regularly has most metres/line breaks/defenders beaten.
One of the biggest screw ups from this coaching regime has been dropping McKenzie for BB last year.
Last time I checked, Dmac was dropped for losing to Argentina (which BB has done this year), and losing two close games in SA against SA (as opposed to BB who was a part of the worst ABs loss in history at Home).
BB isn't a running threat because he doesn't take on the line at all, Dmac is a running threat, they're not the same player in any way.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Nothing against ardie but I personally don’t like him saying stuff like , end of the day it’s just a game , after a loss .
Maybe I’m a grumpy old dinosaur but That’s not the attitude our legacy was built on.
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@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
I agree, I genuinely think the ABs have been held hostage for the last decade by the Barret brothers.
Scott should not be captain or starting yet he is.
Beauden should not be the starting 10 or possibly in the 23 yet he is.
Jordie might be the worst..in the sense he's kinda like an asymptomatic illness. He has the best form of the 3, probably has the best shout of being a starter out of all 3, and he's actually a great player in general...but his specific play style and skillset at 12 is a MASSIVE hindrance to the entire AB attack.
He is not agile, not really quick of hand, not an amazing passer, and doesn't have the first instinct to create space for others but rather to take contact.
It just reminds me of the Wallabies 15+ years ago, when I would just sit back and feel extremely happy seeing Reece Hodge against us, such a limited predictable player, and wondering how he kept starting for Australia over genuinely terrifying alternative options like Berrick Barnes.
So I'm happy you brought this up, because I've always pondered that there must be so many Bok/Wallaby fans extremely elated and astounded to see the ABs continue with BB/Jordie/Rieko, and just sit back cautiously riding out this wave as long as possible before the jig is up.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
I agree, I genuinely think the ABs have been held hostage for the last decade by the Barret brothers.
Scott should not be captain or starting yet he is.
Beauden should not be the starting 10 or possibly in the 23 yet he is.
Jordie might be the worst..in the sense he's kinda like an asymptomatic illness. He has the best form of the 3, probably has the best shout of being a starter out of all 3, and he's actually a great player in general...but his specific play style and skillset at 12 is a MASSIVE hindrance to the entire AB attack.
He is not agile, not really quick of hand, not an amazing passer, and doesn't have the first instinct to create space for others but rather to take contact.
It just reminds me of the Wallabies 15+ years ago, when I would just sit back and feel extremely happy seeing Reece Hodge against us, such a limited predictable player, and wondering how he kept starting for Australia over genuinely terrifying alternative options like Berrick Barnes.
So I'm happy you brought this up, because I've always pondered that there must be so many Bok/Wallaby fans extremely elated and astounded to see the ABs continue with BB/Jordie/Rieko, and just sit back cautiously riding out this wave as long as possible before the jig is up.
I think that is a tad unfair on Jordie, who I think has been the best brother of the three this season, by quite some margin.
On Saturday he was the player with the most touches/involvements in the try - 4.
First, he gets across the gainline initially having spun out of a tackle and taking two defenders to bring him down. Then when the ball swings back to De groot it's gets spilled and Jordie cleans it up and passes out of pressure because the bok prop (Ox) is bearing down on him. Then the third time he touches it he gets man and ball (Kolisi) and gets the ball away. Lastly, he steps in at halfback in the final sequence.
So his overall involvement was a carry over the gainline, two passes to the left, one to the right, both the passes in midfield were made with a bok right in his face.
Jordie saved their bacon with the try saver on Kolbe and he was the player that ran the full length of the pitch on the try intercept that stopped Kolbe going under the posts so that the conversion could be as hard as possible. Whatever his faults I never doubt Jordies integrity and his commitment to the ABs. He doesn't give up on any play.
I just don't see him as the liability that others do. I think Scott has the worst form of all the locks that have played this year and for every good thing BB does he does 3 or 4 pointless things.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@Smuts said in All Blacks 2025:
@stodders as a bok fan I hope your coaches keep looking for solutions at 10, 13 and even blindside for your lack of penetration and attacking fluency.
But here’s a mental experiment: you have to stop a single AB back line player one on one or you lose a nut. Who are you choosing?
We have a term for anybody who doesn’t choose most average Barrett: Billy Big Nut.
Swap him for any of the other 2nd/5s in the Championship and your 10s and 13s will suddenly find themselves with far more space.
I agree, I genuinely think the ABs have been held hostage for the last decade by the Barret brothers.
Scott should not be captain or starting yet he is.
Beauden should not be the starting 10 or possibly in the 23 yet he is.
Jordie might be the worst..in the sense he's kinda like an asymptomatic illness. He has the best form of the 3, probably has the best shout of being a starter out of all 3, and he's actually a great player in general...but his specific play style and skillset at 12 is a MASSIVE hindrance to the entire AB attack.
He is not agile, not really quick of hand, not an amazing passer, and doesn't have the first instinct to create space for others but rather to take contact.
It just reminds me of the Wallabies 15+ years ago, when I would just sit back and feel extremely happy seeing Reece Hodge against us, such a limited predictable player, and wondering how he kept starting for Australia over genuinely terrifying alternative options like Berrick Barnes.
So I'm happy you brought this up, because I've always pondered that there must be so many Bok/Wallaby fans extremely elated and astounded to see the ABs continue with BB/Jordie/Rieko, and just sit back cautiously riding out this wave as long as possible before the jig is up.
I think that is a tad unfair on Jordie, who I think has been the best brother of the three this season, by quite some margin.
On Saturday he was the player with the most touches/involvements in the try - 4.
First, he gets across the gainline initially having spun out of a tackle and taking two defenders to bring him down. Then when the ball swings back to De groot it's gets spilled and Jordie cleans it up and passes out of pressure because the bok prop (Ox) is bearing down on him. Then the third time he touches it he gets man and ball (Kolisi) and gets the ball away. Lastly, he steps in at halfback in the final sequence.
So his overall involvement was a carry over the gainline, two passes to the left, one to the right, both the passes in midfield were made with a bok right in his face.
Jordie saved their bacon with the try saver on Kolbe and he was the player that ran the full length of the pitch on the try intercept that stopped Kolbe going under the posts so that the conversion could be as hard as possible. Whatever his faults I never doubt Jordies integrity and his commitment to the ABs. He doesn't give up on any play.
I just don't see him as the liability that others do. I think Scott has the worst form of all the locks that have played this year and for every good thing BB does he does 3 or 4 pointless things.
I agree Jordie is easily the best Barret and most deserving of a starting role.
It's more the circumstance of his specific skillset and playstyle at the 12 position may end up being the biggest bottleneck for the AB attack.
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MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
I wish they'd just pick Reuben Love at 10 and let him develop into the role.
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
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@kiwiinmelb Reckon the Savea - Kolisi friendship is documented well enough. I remember SBW going to dinner with an Argie on the 2017 doc. We get it. The game needs more Ioanes and Sextons.
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@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
'Liability in big games...', like against Ireland last year?
When he led us to our first win in Dublin in nearly a decade? Against the number 1 team in the world?
Or when he came off the bench and led us to a win against England at Twickenham?
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
'Liability in big games...', like against Ireland last year?
When he led us to our first win in Dublin in nearly a decade? Against the number 1 team in the world?
Or when he came off the bench and led us to a win against England at Twickenham?
Three super rugby finals in a row he's been useless.... and a bunch of test matches last year (he was deservedly dropped)
We won that Ireland game because |reland made a shitload of handling errors..
We were lucky to win that England game, thanks to Mark Telea and England missing that penalty at the end.
Mackenzie was dropped for a reason last year, he's a selfish player who can't control a tight game.
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@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
I wish they'd just pick Reuben Love at 10 and let him develop into the role.
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
Mckenzie didn't play 10 on the weekend, and he was a shitload better than the guy who did.
Oh and he also played a shitload better than the usual fullback, who was godawful.I do agree that Mounga can fuck right off, and that Love should get some meaningful game time.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2025:
MacKenzie is so overrated on here, he's a liability in big games and was fucking awful on the weekend.
I wish they'd just pick Reuben Love at 10 and let him develop into the role.
Also, fuck Richie Mou'aga swanning back for 1 season and then leaving again.... another one that doesn't want to work for his spot in the team.
Mckenzie didn't play 10 on the weekend, and he was a shitload better than the guy who did.
Oh and he also played a shitload better than the usual fullback, who was godawful.I do agree that Mounga can fuck right off, and that Love should get some meaningful game time.
I'm not comparing Mackenzie to Beauden..... As far as I'm concerned we dont win a word cup with either of them at 10.
Time to move on.
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hopefully not paywalled
Robertson's publicist gives as a heads up with what's coming -
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
Anyone seen the latest Facebook post on the ABs page of savea talking about Kolisi? Bit too much love thy neighbour. Vomit inducing
Infuriating.
It winds me right up.
Keane and Viera had nothing good to say about each other until the career was over.
And thats the way it should be.
How can you go into battle against a fella who is hugging your children on the regular.
Yeah they should watch some Mike Tyson videos and threaten to eat each others children, not hug them.
Save all that shit for when they’re retired.
Id be friends with no one until career over.
