All Blacks 2025
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@Chris-B and one of the other losses was that thumping at Twickers when the English midfield of Barritt and Tuilagi ripped us a new one.
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@ACT-Crusader Was that the one where apparently half the team was sick? An otherwise inexplicable thrashing?
Wyatt's other loss was Oz in his last season - along with the two BIL matches.
He'd got to some incredible proportion and 2017 spoiled it slightly.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For what it's worth Proctor is ranked 10th for ball involvements this year (carry or pass or kick)
217 Beauden Barrett
210 Cortez Ratima
191 Finlay Christie
177 Cam Roigard
159 Ardie Savea
149 Damian Mckenzie
144 Jordie Barrett
128 Will Jordan
86 Fabian Holland
67 Billy ProctorThose are encouraging stats in that 2 of the 3 top 3 most involved players are reserve halfbacks. If Roigard was clear #1 on that list the ABs may well have only one loss. Now, imagine if there was a 13 heavily involved in attack, same thing applies.
My overall point being, this team is not operating nesr it's ceiling.
Well the attack and the defence were close to the worst in the comp based on the first 4 games so one would hope that it wasn't near the ceiling.
True, I I still think the defence is pretty poor and I'm not sure how easy it will be to improve. Attack wise though the team can definitely go up another couple of gears....
The biggest discrepancy is the gap between involvements from Barrett and Proctor. One is overly involved, the other too peripheral.
Beaudy only passes to one of them.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B and one of the other losses was that thumping at Twickers when the English midfield of Barritt and Tuilagi ripped us a new one.
TBF the boys all had a serious virus.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean You'd better have Wyatt Crockett as your coach.
72 matches - 66 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses.
Holds the world record for consecutive test victories with 32.
I don't think he lost a test in which he was in the starting XV.
Two of those six draws/losses were vs the BIL Lions and another loss was vs the Barbarians (non-test).
Maybe Razor is cursed for dropping Crockett for that fnal.
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It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
The only countries that seem capable to win are SA, NZ, France, England. Ireland had a great team but are surrender monkeys at RWC time. Not sure Australia have the cattle, would take another perfect storm of generational players to do it. It would take a minor miracle for any of the rest to beat out one or two of the top 4 to win the title. Considering no one has actually done it, I think he's talking shit and the comment smacks of the naivety we are seeing with his ABs tenure right now
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
Fair, I suspect he'll end up with a gig coaching a club team up north, and if he has any success with them would be able to make a case for taking on a Tier 1 nation. And by that stage you'd expect he would be a much better coach than he is now.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B and one of the other losses was that thumping at Twickers when the English midfield of Barritt and Tuilagi ripped us a new one.
TBF the boys all had a serious virus.
Weren’t we one a 18 game winning streak or something as well , not that it makes it ok but you are more inclined to write it off as a bad day when you have been outstanding leading into it .
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out. -
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out.I would say the biggest problem with the NZR system is that you end up with dead wood clogging up pathways. Guys like ALB & Reece getting minutes ahead of younger prospects with years ahead of them and way more upside. There's no rugby reason why Reece was picked 4 times before Carter stepped on the paddock this season.
In that sense I can't help thinking that the NZ XV should be a much more used vehicle for giving players a crack to see what they have got. If they scheduled 6 matches or so a year (3 in June/July and 3 in November) and had a really solid connection with the AB coaching staff you would be able to get a much better look at what players can offer in a national team environment. As is I can't help feeling that guys like Love end up languishing in a system that rewards longevity over form and guys like Shaun Stevenson never really get a fair crack.
If you have a central contact system you really have to be an excellent arbiter of talent. You don't have the luxury of letting players slip through your fingers or not getting the best out of the players under contract.
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out.Correct. Robertson would have selected Richie Mo'unga.
The thing that’s puts people off about selecting overseas players is that we’ve seen them come back to New Zealand and play incredibly poorly far too often.
The question there is: why do players based in Japan front up for South Africa but, Ardie Savea, for example, comes back from his sabbatical a complete waste of space for a full season?
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out.I think you're way over egging the pudding, when we were completely dominant for the better part of a decade it was under the exact system we have now, and for the majority of that time period the Saffas could select from overseas.
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
I've noticed a distinct whiff of defending Razor by claiming he's not able to chose his own players, when really he just hasn't been up to it coaching-wise so far. Fingers crossed he's learning on the job how to coach international rugby. Plus, he's going to have to hope his little overhyped 10 pays off, as much as I will shout I told you so I'll be gutted if he doesn't pay off and we continue to be relatively shit.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out.Correct. Robertson would have selected Richie Mo'unga.
The thing that’s puts people off about selecting overseas players is that we’ve seen them come back to New Zealand and play incredibly poorly far too often.
The question there is: why do players based in Japan front up for South Africa but, Ardie Savea, for example, comes back from his sabbatical a complete waste of space for a full season?
The Bok’s Japan based players, bar Kolbe, all took some time to get back to the level expected of them after their time in Japan. Even PSDT. And Marx took even longer.
They had to up their game to stay in Rassie’s plans. Maybe the AB players returning from sabbatical don’t feel their place is under enough threat?
