All Blacks 2025
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia it hilarious. No one talks about Mo’unga more on this forum than you.
I follow the concept of utu and like to provide balance to Razor, Cantabs and plastic cantabs.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
Speaking of oldtimers Nonu just scored a try recently. And I'd bet Ryan would choose Shannon.
And not that I ever mentioned it before but someone like Akira could still be handy.Yeah, I'd take Akira, but I'm glad the useless shit Shannon is unavailable to Ryan.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
They had to up their game to stay in Rassie’s plans. Maybe the AB players returning from sabbatical don’t feel their place is under enough threat?
And they sure have upped their game.
The thing is Rassie is picking overseas players all the time now.
A little less than half the current squad.
No way you can say it doesn't work.
They are in and out of the squad constantly.
The whole set up is now different.
The only time he doesn't select outside, is when the international windows are closed.
The SA squad is operating like an international club team.
And it'll remain this way, because the international game is where the real rugby money is.NZ is just picking from SRP.
And SRP is not that special, and probably no better prep for Test rugby than any other domestic comp.
If some foreign club wants to subsidise an ABs pay packet, NZR should be all for it. -
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
I think you're way over egging the pudding, when we were completely dominant for the better part of a decade it was under the exact system we have now, and for the majority of that time period the Saffas could select from overseas.
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
I've noticed a distinct whiff of defending Razor by claiming he's not able to chose his own players, when really he just hasn't been up to it coaching-wise so far. Fingers crossed he's learning on the job how to coach international rugby. Plus, he's going to have to hope his little overhyped 10 pays off, as much as I will shout I told you so I'll be gutted if he doesn't pay off and we continue to be relatively shit.
You said it.
We were completely dominant.
But times change, and the old thinking and way of doing things is not cutting it anymore.
Happens everywhere in society, all the time.
It’s all relative, but I’d say we are maybe not quite as good as we were, but we’re still darned good.
Having just said that, but were we really that good.
We missed out on a several WCs when we were favourites.
Ran into SF/F buzz saws several times, and our game couldn’t withstand the pressure.
What’s changed is the other guys have got better, they’ve figured us out, and moved on.There are very few players overseas that would be picked now, exactly because of the current restriction.
I’d say if the restriction was dropped, the make up of the AB squad would look very like the SA squad very quickly.Not defending Robertson, but I can see he’s been worked into a corner selection wise.
Probably of his own making.
Him (assuming him) and NZR signed a lot of veteran ABs, thru to 27 [assuming again].
They are all players who have not been dominant at all for the last 7 years (No 1 ranked for only 98 days days in that 7 year period, and no WCs).
Players who are constantly being whinged about (rightly) on this site.
Robertson is pretty much locked himself into the current squad, thru to 27.
This is not the case with Rassie; he can chop and change, and pick who ever the fuck he wants.
And the Aussies are moving in this direction too. -
NZ Origin Players with pro contracts Overseas in 2024.
The second column are those who are no longer eligible for NZ.
Altho maybe not permanently, I notice Rassie actually selected an ex Ireland player this season. He has absolutely no shame.That is an awful lot of professional rugby players eliminated from the selection process.
And I'd also comment, they would all be available, if asked! -
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
I think you're way over egging the pudding, when we were completely dominant for the better part of a decade it was under the exact system we have now, and for the majority of that time period the Saffas could select from overseas.
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
I've noticed a distinct whiff of defending Razor by claiming he's not able to chose his own players, when really he just hasn't been up to it coaching-wise so far. Fingers crossed he's learning on the job how to coach international rugby. Plus, he's going to have to hope his little overhyped 10 pays off, as much as I will shout I told you so I'll be gutted if he doesn't pay off and we continue to be relatively shit.
You said it.
We were completely dominant.
But times change, and the old thinking and way of doing things is not cutting it anymore.
Happens everywhere in society, all the time.
It’s all relative, but I’d say we are maybe not quite as good as we were, but we’re still darned good.
Having just said that, but were we really that good.
We missed out on a several WCs when we were favourites.
Ran into SF/F buzz saws several times, and our game couldn’t withstand the pressure.
What’s changed is the other guys have got better, they’ve figured us out, and moved on.There are very few players overseas that would be picked now, exactly because of the current restriction.
I’d say if the restriction was dropped, the make up of the AB squad would look very like the SA squad very quickly.Not defending Robertson, but I can see he’s been worked into a corner selection wise.
Probably of his own making.
Him (assuming him) and NZR signed a lot of veteran ABs, thru to 27 [assuming again].
They are all players who have not been dominant at all for the last 7 years (No 1 ranked for only 98 days days in that 7 year period, and no WCs).
Players who are constantly being whinged about (rightly) on this site.
Robertson is pretty much locked himself into the current squad, thru to 27.
This is not the case with Rassie; he can chop and change, and pick who ever the fuck he wants.
And the Aussies are moving in this direction too.I honestly think the problem with Razor is that he takes too long to figure things out.
The French had the better of the aerial duels in that series but one of the better ABs at dealing with the high balls was Love in Hamilton - who never played again for a few tests. Meanwhile he kept picking players like Reece and Rieko who can't get the job done under the high ball which eventually culminated in the disaster class of the second Argentina test.
If he was a more astute selector and coach he would have been fixing that high ball problem long before it but him in the ass.
Same thing goes for the lineout. Without Taylor it was a disaster in Hamilton but for Wellington Bok test he once again had McAlister in the bench and lol and behold the lineout was dog shit again. Didn't start Holland in that test either which may have helped matters.
Razor just makes too many obvious errors and doesn't seem to be intelligent enough to be fix things before they become massive problems. It literally takes massive failure before he rethinks his failing strategies.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
I honestly think the problem with Razor is that he takes too long to figure things out.
Haha
Yeah
When it comes to thinking, he is definitely nothing like Rassie! -
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
I honestly think the problem with Razor is that he takes too long to figure things out.
Haha
Yeah
When it comes to thinking, he is definitely nothing like Rassie!Haha!
I'm just praying that the ABs can get it done in Perth, somehow, some way.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
Maybe the AB players
returning from sabbaticaldon’t feel their place is under enough threat?Sadly for the past decade or so, it seemed harder to get dropped, as many have joked, our best selector the past 3 or 4 years has been injury.
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
We were completely dominant.
But times change, and the old thinking and way of doing things is not cutting it anymore.Which may or may not have anything to do with whether we select players from overseas, and which doesn't mean that what works for one country, which is flavour of the month now, will work for us.
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
There are very few players overseas that would be picked now, exactly because of the current restriction.
I’d say if the restriction was dropped, the make up of the AB squad would look very like the SA squad very quickly.The game in NZ would be done then, the people who complain about the NPC not having all the best players (often from the populous franchise areas) are then going to do the same with Super. We are not South Africa, we are not in the same situation as them, therefore emulating them is not guaranteed to be successful.
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
Not defending Robertson, but I can see he’s been worked into a corner selection wise.
No. He selects who he wants aside from one player (two if we're going to include the flake Frizell) and that player is coming back. If Razor was forced to select players he didn't want it would have leaked by now - AB rugby leaks like a sieve as evidenced by the number of posters on here these days who know the team before it's announced.
During the Fozzie era our problem was Fozzie, and everything would be righted once Razor arrived, Razor has arrived and now the problem is we're not emulating the Saffas.
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
The second column are those who are no longer eligible for NZ.
Those numbers halve when you remove those players and the MLR players who are often playing NPC in NZ and only going to MLR when they don't receive Super contracts.
There's a point where players just aren't good enough so when they go overseas they reduce NZ depth, but they aren't weakening the AB pool. I'm sure the players in Japan D3 aren't going to be elevated to the ABs any time soon.
There's also a point where a player just isn't going to be selected despite them being good enough, so they don't really weaken the pool either, think Akira, and probably Sotutu in the future.
There's also retirees from international rugby who take up final overseas contracts for financial reasons.
All of those groups give some perspective to the raw numbers you have posted.
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The other challenge you would have with a much larger eligibility pool would be tracking a lot more players in different places.
Leroy Carter was the top Kiwi try scorer in super but that wasn't enough to get him into the AB squad to begin with and then he didnt start his first match until the 7th game of the season.
If he was doing what he was doing in Hamilton for someone like Harlequins would he have been more likely to have made the team? Or less? It's not a rhetorical question - I genuinely don't know.
Whether players are in NZ or overseas you still have to be a good judge of talent and if you ignore form I don't think it changes much.
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And MLR is heartland level, so not a good ground to select players from.
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If Robertson could select players from overseas, he’d just be selecting more past-it players. He values experience over everything else. Holland, Carter, Parker etc never would have been given a chance.
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Yeah this stuff about Razor not being able to select players, apart from the best 10 the game has ever seen Richie Mo'unga and a role player who made his tackles, cleaned rucks and carried off the 9 close to the ruck, Shannon Frizzell (basically the Tongan version of Reuben Thorne), who are the all these overseas players that Razor can't select? A broken down Sam Cane? 34 year old TJ Perenara? We know he and his Crusaders mates hate Blues players so none of them are gonna get picked from overseas, they barely get picked playing at home!
So please, for the people who are saying that Razor is getting restricted from picking overseas players, who are they apart from Mo'unga and Frizell?
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
Yeah this stuff about Razor not being able to select players, apart from the best 10 the game has ever seen Richie Mo'unga and a role player who made his tackles, cleaned rucks and carried off the 9 close to the ruck, Shannon Frizzell (basically the Tongan version of Reuben Thorne), who are the all these overseas players that Razor can't select? A broken down Sam Cane? 34 year old TJ Perenara? We know he and his Crusaders mates hate Blues players so none of them are gonna get picked from overseas, they barely get picked playing at home!
So please, for the people who are saying that Razor is getting restricted from picking overseas players, who are they apart from Mo'unga and Frizell?
I don't know, but it is getting worrying when the best attacking AB midfielder scoring tries is 43 and playing for Toulon.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia it hilarious. No one talks about Mo’unga more on this forum than you.
I follow the concept of utu and like to provide balance to Razor, Cantabs and plastic cantabs.
Just surprised you haven't complimented @ACT-Crusader for turning your name into a verb!
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The papers are saying it is a major problem for the ABs that Vaa'i is replaced by Holland, but I don't know, after the last game, if he is still injured, I kind of prefer this.
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Is it wise for the ABs to be going to Chicago right now?
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@ExiledHalfback The money calls the tune in professional sport.
