All Blacks 2025
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@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@george33 said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I just hope like hell these coaches have had no input into the selection of ABXV otherwise we are in serious trouble but they would have a lot I'm thinking.
They have a big say and most selections are theirs. Jamie Joseph will have his input and I’m sure be able to select those he really likes and I have no doubt he will do that but ultimately it’s up to the AB coaching group.
That is a sobering thought. I really wish there was more of an external input on these selections from outside the AB coaching group. I say that because there had to be a lot of joined up thinking in the selections that extends beyond 2027/the length of the coaches contracts.
Whatever happens in the next two years you want to make sure that the post 2027 coaches don't inherit a squad with young players devoid of experience or a squad full of over the hill players.
Probably not too much of a problem.
There's 36 guys in the ABs. There will be around 30 more in the AB XV and easily another nine who'd be in one of the two squads if they weren't injured.
So 75 players, which neatly equates to five XVs - which equals the starting XVs of the Super rugby teams.
People will quibble around half a dozen squaddies in the ABs and again the most marginal half-dozen selections in the AB XV, but it's unlikely we're going to miss a superstar - and certainly not two years running.
Most people who pay attention and aren't total loonies could probably pick at least 85 percent of the two squads.
I haven't paid enough attention to NPC this year, but @frugby picked both squads ten days ago and I daresay he'll get most of it right.
We are unlikely to completely miss selecting a superstar across both squads for sure.
We seem considerably more likely to allow a potential superstar or two (or at least better players) to sit on the bench / stands / play 2 part games for the AB XV for a season or two... while has-beens and never-gonna-bes are giving us mediocre results in the top side. And then have those potentially better players bugger off overseas, or have their effectiveness diminished by injuries etc.Agreed.
The other element of this to me is that when Razor has been brave in his selections this season it has tended to pay dividends. Id say he is getting a bigger payout for his braver choices - like playing Holland and leaving him on for 80 mins or moving QT to 13 or picking Carter - than he is from his conservative choices.
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@nzzp Yes - because nobody has put up anything close to a body of work to suggest they deserve a crack at the next level down.
Perofeta is injured.
Love has had a few games of promise for the Hurricanes, but it seems he wants to be a fullback.
I think most would probably say Jacomb is the next best after that, and good few on this forum was calling him overrated on Saturday night.
Then you go to a Reihana, who might not even by the Crusaders first choice 10?
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@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The only place you could argue there is possibly an opening is 10, and nobody has put anything up yet to suggest they could bolt in.
No one has been given a run, except BB and DMac.
And even then DMac has only played when BB is injured. So he doesn't really think beyond BB which is nuts when you consider just how uneven his play is.
By this point in the year it would have made more sense to me that BB and DMac would have split their starts more equally. It's exactly what Rassie does with the Boks 10s.
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@KiwiMurph That him and Kemara never really crossed over. David Havili was even preferred ahead of him in 2024.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The only place you could argue there is possibly an opening is 10, and nobody has put anything up yet to suggest they could bolt in.
No one has been given a run, except BB and DMac.
And even then DMac has only played when BB is injured. So he doesn't really think beyond BB which is nuts when you consider just how uneven his play is.
DMac got a good run at the start of last year. He'd previously had about five intermittent starts - now he's been developed into a credible option.
The very clear plan is Waiting on Rich-Mo. He was clearly our best 10 when he departed and that's surely been reinforced in his absence. Seems to still be killing it in Japan, so hopefully he'll come back still very good.
He'd have to fall away massively not to be better than the best of the youngsters.
Can't see us going into 2027 in a worse five-eighth depth position than 2011 (Carter, Slade, Cruden, Beaver) - unless Richie gets broken or is a total bust.
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The looming debate about the wider All Blacks squad
One potential omission could spark debate about the purpose of the wider All Blacks squad.
Want to be careful not to break the paywall BUT:
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Pledger expected to be out as Joseph thinks he would benefit from full Super Rugby Pre-Season
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Tangitau, Taranaki playmaker Josh Jacomb, who will switch from the Chiefs to the Highlanders in 2027, Dalton Papali’i, McAlister, Darry, Braydon Ennor, Dallas McLeod and Fihaki are among those expected to be included in Joseph’s All Blacks XV squad.
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I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't actually understand why Paps would be in the XV. He's a known quantity. If they don't think he's AB level for the EOYT the only thing useful for the XV I imagine would be leadership for others. But that would be unfair on him.
Dunno.
Maybe he might want to turn up, play like a man possessed , and force himself into the equation for next year?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The very clear plan is Waiting on Rich-Mo. He was clearly our best 10 when he departed and that's surely been reinforced in his absence. ..
"Out of New Zealand’s three main fly-halves, Richie Mo’unga has the worst record against the top nations after All Blacks legend Jeff Wilson revealed a surprising statistic."
Wilson at about 17:20...
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph That him and Kemara never really crossed over. David Havili was even preferred ahead of him in 2024.
What does 2024 have to do with anything.
Reihana delivered in the 2025 playoffs leading his team to the title outplaying Beauden and DMac along the way.
If fit, Reihana starts at 10 in 2026 for the Crusaders.
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The looming debate about the wider All Blacks squad
One potential omission could spark debate about the purpose of the wider All Blacks squad.
Want to be careful not to break the paywall BUT:
- Pledger expected to be out as Joseph thinks he would benefit from full Super Rugby Pre-Season
That's interesting, well social media engagement numbers will be out the gate tomorrow then
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@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Unfortunately for Papali'i I'm not expecting him to be named in the All Blacks XV either.
Did he get injured yesterday?
He seemed to be one of the few CM players that didn't come back on when other players were injured. Motuga made more impact anyway.
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I think the argument would be, the fringe 'bolters' e.g Tangitau, are better served PLAYING for the NZ XV than holding tackle bags for the ABs.
It is an argument, for sure. But I'd argue we shouldn't be picking ABs to hold tackle bags. Been far too much picking players and hardly playing them in the last few years
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Here's a related statistic.
Richie has played Ireland seven times.
He's started twice and we've won both games (at World Cups).
Five times he's been on the bench behind Beaudy. We've lost four of those five games.
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I really hope the AB XV select some bolters and start getting some depth built especially at 10
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Papali'i & Darry should be there over Finau & Lord... but we don't pick Blues with this coaching setup.
Monstered the Chiefs in the 1/4s missing 2 abs and took Crusaders to 86 mins in the Semi.
Razor must think Cotter is a coaching demi-god considering their clinical performances in the playoffs 2024 & 2025 with barely any test quality players!
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Midfield - more question marks even with the QT performance against the Aussies. There may be a temptation to rotate a bit. Jordie still our best midfielder but the way they are using him to drop back defensively was interesting to say the least.
Ireland and Scotland attack from the midfield quite differently to Aussie so it’s going to be interesting to see if they go with QT or Proctor.It's kind of a strange set of midfielders - even though it's not surprising.
On current rankings:
Second five: Jordie, Tupaea, ALB
Centre: Tupaea, Proctor, Ioane, ALB
I don't see Big Leicester starting there, unless maybe vs Wales - quite possible he plays wing or on the bench, though. I'd have grouped him with the wings.
If Jordie gets injured, I wonder whether they go Tupaea/Proctor or ALB/Tupaea?
It would be QT12/ALB13.
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@pakman said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Midfield - more question marks even with the QT performance against the Aussies. There may be a temptation to rotate a bit. Jordie still our best midfielder but the way they are using him to drop back defensively was interesting to say the least.
Ireland and Scotland attack from the midfield quite differently to Aussie so it’s going to be interesting to see if they go with QT or Proctor.It's kind of a strange set of midfielders - even though it's not surprising.
On current rankings:
Second five: Jordie, Tupaea, ALB
Centre: Tupaea, Proctor, Ioane, ALB
I don't see Big Leicester starting there, unless maybe vs Wales - quite possible he plays wing or on the bench, though. I'd have grouped him with the wings.
If Jordie gets injured, I wonder whether they go Tupaea/Proctor or ALB/Tupaea?
It would be QT12/ALB13.
I'd much prefer QT12/Rieko12
Edit: QT12/Rieko13
