All Blacks 2025
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The current ABs group have been so underwhelming so far. They started off picking a combination of Fozzie's old boys and Cantab homers, injuries struck and forced some change. Year two and Razor seems intent on playing small ball, we lose games against Argentina and get spanked by SA, and could have lost the games against those teams that we won. It's not just the results and selection, our rugby is horrible to watch and we are struggling to master basic skills like passing in front, kicking, and kick returns. If their objective was to temper the expectations of AB supporters, I think they have succeeded
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Not when your argument is they were never going to pick players who were going overseas.
That's not my argument.
They were never going to pick Akira once he was going overseas, because what was he going to bring? Leadership? A deep understanding of All Black culture? Lessons on what not to do?
Robertson selected last year’s squads thinking those players would get him a good win record in his first season and for no reason other than that. He thought Cane and Perenara would do the job and Ioane wouldn’t. That they were going overseas wasn’t a factor.
So, do you also reckon the reason Mark Teleá hasn't been picked this year is because the coaches don't think he'd do as good of a job as Sevu, Rieko, Leicester, etc on the wing?
I'm pretty sure they've not picked him because it would be a waste of time giving caps to a guy who's heading overseas next year.
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@canefan I am reserving judgement on this season for the End of Year Tour.
I think it is feasible the Sky Stadium game is a freak aberration, and that Argentina loss had the mitigating circumstances of the three yellows (can't really blame the coaches for that)
Roigard missed those tests also, and at current he is basically indispensable.
But there is nowhere to hide here. We need four wins, and they really ought to be of a convincing nature.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in [All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025]
The notion that Razor simply didnt select Akira because he had signed overseas (with the insinuation being that he otherwise would have) and simply was not consulted prior to Akira going overseas is absolutely laughable.
I have no idea whether he would have been selected if he hadn't signed overseas, but I am certain he was virtually no chance once he had.
The ABs must have used close to 10 players in the 6 jersey under Razor, so I don't see why they would have especially precluded Akira. I mean, honestly, why on earth would you? You've only got five Super teams to choose from.
On the other hand, he's not Richie McCaw, so you could never have given him a cast iron guarantee.
In a nutshell, wouldn't you say, "Mate, if you play well you'll be in the frame".
And wouldn't you say that to about 90% of guys with test experience?
A couple of things
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I'd be interested in Hoskins take on play well and you'll be in the frame.
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How does that jive with their comments and treatment Shannon Frizell who has only played 10 or so tests more than Akira then?
Yet they have gone public with this notion of how much they rate Shannon Frizell and how much they want him to return - and had a crack at the contracting issue too. Shannon Frizell is not exactly Richie McCaw either.
Here is what Jase Ryan said in September 2023 about Shannon Frizell - bearing in mind this after Razor had been confirmed to get the job.
This reads a hell of a lot different to "play well and you'll be in the frame".
Just factor this in with Akira as a comparison
Then the forwards coach confirmed conversations were taking place with the big blindside about his intentions for next season and beyond. “We’ve had some good convos,” he said. “I think that could have been done better, to be honest. Shannon didn't really want to go. So there's a few things going on behind the scenes and I think sometimes that contracting stuff can be done a little bit better. “He was at a stage … that something was thrown in front of him, and he didn't probably have all the facts. I’m a big fan of Shannon. He's got a lot of good tests in front of him for the All Blacks.”Again - I point out - if they really rated Akira they would have done more/said more.
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Every coach has their favourites, those who get preferential treatment. Then there are others who always seem to be on the outer, barring a show stopping performance when given an opportunity by chance that changes their fortunes. Clearly the Auckland loose trio are in the second group
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@KiwiMurph Well, on Hoskins...
Fast forward to the Northern Tour squad, and the prognosis was slightly more promising for Sotutu. While he again missed selection in the top squad, his inclusion in the All Blacks XV offered Sotutu a crucial opportunity to perform on the international stage once again and prove himself ready.
Then, a slew of All Blacks loose forward injuries were revealed, meaning the team would require extra cover, opening the door for Sotutu to step back into the All Blacks environment.
However, news broke on Wednesday that Sotutu would miss his first crack at a black jersey in 48 months thanks to a knee injury, news that Scott Robertson expanded on for media in Auckland.
“We were going to bring Hoskins in, but he’s injured,” the coach revealed, discussing plans for a select few members of the All Blacks XV team to join the All Blacks in Tokyo, training for the Japan Test.
I said above, I would've picked him last year and he was very unlucky - but the door's evidently not closed to him, despite more prognostications of doom. This year he was not as compelling - and if you watch the last 10 minutes of his season, you'll see a couple of reasons why he didn't make it.
On Frizell - I know this is a bitter pill for you guys to swallow, but he was obviously higher up the pecking order than Akira when he left. Has there been much commentary, for example, on Teleá leaving?
I'd guess they'd rather he didn't but we can cope without him.
And I suspect that's where my view on Akira and yours - and others - diverges.
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I'd be really interested to see:
One of AS & WS with one of EB/DP/LJ and HS.
HS is probably the only 8 in the country with genuine size and lineout ability (Flanders maybe the next?). Because we keep picking small 8s, and last year was shit with 3 small loosies, we've now decided we need a big 6. But Parker/Vaai/Finau simply aren't as high quality a loose forward as DP/EB/LJ, particularly when the workrate of the others selected isn't their major strength.@Chris-B And if you watch the knock-out game before the one you mention, it was largely Hoskins who won it - against a whole lot of Chiefs forwards who have been selected - you can cherry-pick that in either direction.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
On Frizell - I know this is a bitter pill for you guys to swallow, but he was obviously higher up the pecking order when he left.
That is actually my whole point.
Just be honest about it.
Saying "well they didnt pick Akira because he signed overseas" is disingenuous as they've clearly shown
a) they have no problem going public about contracting frustrations
b) Akira signing overseas occurred after Ryan and Razor were aware of the Frizell contracting frustrations so had ample time to engage with Akira
c) they've also had no problem going public about enticing players who are overseas to come back.
Razor had an unprecedented lead in time to get things in order - announced in March 2023 as AB coach when he wouldnt coach an AB game until July 2024
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@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
That AB XV squad really does seem like a bit of a wasted opportunity not to look at another winger - they have a heap of fullback cover already - someone like Fehi Fineanganofo would be ideal
I wonder if perhaps they want to see Rona on the wing.
To be honest, I'd rather see the same back three of ENS, JRK and Tangitau rolled out for each of the three matches. All three of those guys could be All Blacks next year and while that shouldn't preclude the selection of a guy Fineanganofo, I don't think there's an absolute need to get him in the there just yet.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I'm in the Akira leaving is on Akira camp - but that was a Blues side with the foot off the gas, and nowhere near as bad a Crusaders team as you're saying (on the day, the season was abject).
Notably their three best players in Blackadder, Taylor & Williams, and their 10 in Burke all playing - and all of whom played bugger all due to injury that season. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Not when your argument is they were never going to pick players who were going overseas.
That's not my argument.
They were never going to pick Akira once he was going overseas, because what was he going to bring? Leadership? A deep understanding of All Black culture? Lessons on what not to do?
Robertson selected last year’s squads thinking those players would get him a good win record in his first season and for no reason other than that. He thought Cane and Perenara would do the job and Ioane wouldn’t. That they were going overseas wasn’t a factor.
So, do you also reckon the reason Mark Teleá hasn't been picked this year is because the coaches don't think he'd do as good of a job as Sevu, Rieko, Leicester, etc on the wing?
I'm pretty sure they've not picked him because it would be a waste of time giving caps to a guy who's heading overseas next year.
I think it’s now year two and Robertson is being ‘more bold’ in his selections. He wanted a good first year (didn’t really get it) but realised he couldn’t continue picking players who were leaving.
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@Tim said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Does Jacobson ever play? Is he an extra coach or something?
Arguably the most baffling selection of Robertson's reign. We seem to have played everyone, everywhere at 6/78 - except Jacobson.
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@reprobate Crikey!
We were shit all season (probably excluding this game) but have you not gleaned the Fern assessments of these guys?
Shalfoon - soft thug
Strange - weak moron
Blackadder - Busy but ineffectual
Hotham - probably not awful
Reece - old, slow and useless
Havili - worse than Reece
Aumua - worse than Havili and the worst midfielder everThat's just the Ta$man players.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Tim said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Does Jacobson ever play? Is he an extra coach or something?
Arguably the most baffling selection of Robertson's reign. We seem to have played everyone, everywhere at 6/78 - except Jacobson.
He's like the Charlie Ngatai of the forwards, except he actually gets selected and travels but doesn't play
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Midfielders: Braydon Ennor, David Havili, Dallas McLeod, Daniel Rona
Assume he's there for midfield leadership?
