All Blacks 2025
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
- They were never going to pick him once he signed in Japan.
They picked Cane and Perenara.
Yes, but Cane is a 100 cap All Black captain and Perenara has been around for 10 years as an ever-present. In a team that had been badly shorn of experience. And TJ didn't announce he'd signed overseas until after the AB season had started and he'd been picked.
Akira had a chequered AB career and hadn't even made the team for RWC.
Is there not an obvious difference?
Akira's best rugby was in front of him..?
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@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@African-Monkey yeah was Ice, he had played 8 games for Auckland (according to Wiki)
Rokocoko debuted at both super and ABs in 2003
Mitchell and Deans definitely picked Joe Rok on potential given in that super season he wasn’t a permanent starter with Rupeni and Dougie there plus Mils and Rico.
Yes he was, Doug mostly played fullback and Mils mostly played centre. I think Joe had the most appearances of all the wings and played the finals. Rico was on the bench the most.
Maybe my memory is hazy, but what I do remember was a match I went to whilst in NZ at Okara Park against Qld and he didn’t start.
Being 19 yo he certainly was showing potential in a backline that had all sorts of talent.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
- They were never going to pick him once he signed in Japan.
They picked Cane and Perenara.
Yes, but Cane is a 100 cap All Black captain and Perenara has been around for 10 years as an ever-present. In a team that had been badly shorn of experience. And TJ didn't announce he'd signed overseas until after the AB season had started and he'd been picked.
Akira had a chequered AB career and hadn't even made the team for RWC.
Is there not an obvious difference?
Akira's best rugby was in front of him..?
Considering that Frizell for most of his ABs career so far has been pretty inconsequential, with flashes of quality here and there, he is getting far better treatment than Akira. But I still struggle to see how he justifies it. I don't feel strongly about him either way, that's based on his on field play. When he should have stood up in the RWC23 final I don't remember him doing so. Just another flat track bully who will fit in with the rest of them
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
- They were never going to pick him once he signed in Japan.
They picked Cane and Perenara.
Yes, but Cane is a 100 cap All Black captain and Perenara has been around for 10 years as an ever-present. In a team that had been badly shorn of experience. And TJ didn't announce he'd signed overseas until after the AB season had started and he'd been picked.
Akira had a chequered AB career and hadn't even made the team for RWC.
Is there not an obvious difference?
Those goalposts have shifted so much I am not sure they're even in the same stadium.
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@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@mikedogz said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Have I completely misunderstood that ENS is buggering off?
There was chat he was going to France but he has signed with the Chiefs for another year. Last year I thought he was the second best left winger behind Caleb Clarke. It was unfortunate he got injured this year. I expect he plays mainly at Fullback for the Chiefs next year and could be an improvement on Stevenson with better all-round skills.
Awesome, really rate him and think his game would translate well to test rugby. Shades of Mils...
Not certain he's big enough to be an international fullback but could definitely make an impact on the wing.
Cripes, if being a decently solid, 6 ft bloke doesn't make you big enough for an international fullback, there's going to be a fair few blokes going redundant or shifting to wing soon. Who's going to be left?
Wouldn't have guessed he was 6 ft from looking at him! Guess he'll do.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@mikedogz said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Have I completely misunderstood that ENS is buggering off?
There was chat he was going to France but he has signed with the Chiefs for another year. Last year I thought he was the second best left winger behind Caleb Clarke. It was unfortunate he got injured this year. I expect he plays mainly at Fullback for the Chiefs next year and could be an improvement on Stevenson with better all-round skills.
Awesome, really rate him and think his game would translate well to test rugby. Shades of Mils...
Not certain he's big enough to be an international fullback but could definitely make an impact on the wing.
Cripes, if being a decently solid, 6 ft bloke doesn't make you big enough for an international fullback, there's going to be a fair few blokes going redundant or shifting to wing soon. Who's going to be left?
Wouldn't have guessed he was 6 ft from looking at him! Guess he'll do.
I've certainly never had the impression he's small, especially when you compare him to other chiefs outside backs.
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@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
My real point is - many of you Blues guys seem to see a massive conspiracy, where there's really just a few line calls gone against you.
Our best performing 10 is gone. Our 6 (arguably best 6 in the comp) is gone. Our 8 (player of the year) looks like he is going. Our 7, another ex-AB, won't get picked. They talk about getting big men but Peter Dinklage has more hope of being picked as an AB loose forward.
Who does get picked? Christie and BB. Two players I can't remember any Blues supporter on here demanding to get picked. 3, if you add Stephen ('even Ethan Blackadders's tougher than me') Perofeta. Ok, he played ok when picked but I think even ardent Blues fans were surprised.
Darry was a good one but picked out of necessity.
Your 6 was gone before Razor ever named his first squad. He took the yen. And neither he nor his brother - who aren't social media shrinking violets - have ever suggested Razor had any role in this decision. Once he signed in Japan, it would have been moronic to pick him for the All Blacks. If you want to be upset with an AB coach about Akira - blame Hansen.
Plummer - well, there's a theory that we need a solid journeyman at 10. I don't subcribe to it. But, they picked Beauden and Perofeta ahead of him - I'm overwhelmed by the bias!
Now Hoskins was unlucky. But, they were only ever going to pick two number 8s and Ardie was a mortal lock. They went for Sititi and he won World Breakout Player of the year, so it wasn't really a terrible pick. And they were going to call Hoskins up for the EOYT, but he was broken. He was less compelling this year and now he's broken again.
Paps - no more unlucky than Blackadder, who outplayed all comers in the Super play-offs. There's no Crusaders in the loosies either and despite the prognostications of doom, I see Dalton in the AB XV.
I believe we've discussed AJ Lam and Ricky Riccitelli previously. RR is a hard no from me.
My feeling was Akira knew he was not going to get picked. Could be completely wrong. He said money was part (and could well be the major part) of his decision but he didn't clearly say what the remaining reasons were.
MY real point is not that more Blues need to be in the ABs but the way they were or weren't treated may have been a factor in them leaving or potentially leaving, weakening the Blues.
Lam was my major grump about non-AB selection previously but he has a lot more competition now so I'm not so energetic in my laments. RR, yeah, good Super player, can see why they didn't choose him. I don't really see a Crusaders bias but a loyalty bias favouring oldtimers and Crusaders stalwarts (Ioane has been lucky to be picked, as has Reece and ALB).
Riccitelli is better at the Hooker core roles than everyone bar Taylor.
They same capitulation that happened to McAlister in Wellington could happen to Bell.
Well, if you see the core roles of the hooker as throwing to the lineout and taking a ring to Mordor, then I agree with you.
But, if you want a big, fast, dynamic runner - a powerful scrummager - a guy who's going to win collisions vs the Boks - then picking a small journeyman hooker is not on my list.
He's the Kirifi of hookers, but less compelling.
The Blues scrum has actually been close to the strongest in Super Rugby with him there. It's been 1 or 2 for most scrum penalties won for several years.
Renata with Patty T behind him!
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@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
While I'm in semi rant mode (procrastinating from doing work), while I think it's time to move on from ALB I think some of the commentary about his tenure in the ABs on here has been fucking stupid. The fact some posters are trying to rewrite his career and make out he was always at this level is bonkers. For most of his AB career ALB was a sold AB, not a superstar but a decent glue player, and more often than not didn't let us down in black.
Very good in the last period of the Irish quarter.
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@sparky said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't care that certain coaches found Akira Ioane difficult, he could this in the Test arena. Wow! What a player!
Dealing with difficult personalities is a big part of the skill set of a coach. Phil Jackson made a hall of fame career out of doing exactly that.
Its so weak when players get cast aside because coaches can't handle them. Sure, if they do something egregiously wrong or criminal then I can see that but handling difficult personalities is part of the job description.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@African-Monkey yeah was Ice, he had played 8 games for Auckland (according to Wiki)
Rokocoko debuted at both super and ABs in 2003
Mitchell and Deans definitely picked Joe Rok on potential given in that super season he wasn’t a permanent starter with Rupeni and Dougie there plus Mils and Rico.
Yes he was, Doug mostly played fullback and Mils mostly played centre. I think Joe had the most appearances of all the wings and played the finals. Rico was on the bench the most.
Yeah that’s the way I remember it , they did have a rotation system, where mils would play fb , Rico 13 and one of Doug , Joe and rupeni would have a spell . But their number 1 side seemed to be Doug FB , Fijian boys on the wings , mils at 13, Rico bench.
What was odd though was the abs playing rangi at 13 when tana went down and they didn’t seem to have faith in a green nonu, when mils seemed the more obvious choice .
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
I don't care that certain coaches found Akira Ioane difficult, he could this in the Test arena. Wow! What a player!
Dealing with difficult personalities is a big part of the skill set of a coach. Phil Jackson made a hall of fame career out of doing exactly that.
Its so weak when players get cast aside because coaches can't handle them. Sure, if they do something egregiously wrong or criminal then I can see that but handling difficult personalities is part of the job description.
You get a pass if you are one of the coaches' favourites. Just ask Shannon and Sevu
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The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
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@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
What I find quite curious is Dalton Papali'i was basically dropped immediately after Leon MacDonald left.
That's not true. Papalii broke his thumb so missed the first test against the Springboks, coinciding with Sam Cane's return. Cane was then shepherded through to 100 tests in the Bledisloe Cup.
Papalii then pulled his hamstring and missed the end of year tour when he otherwise would have been selected.
This year, they are clearly looking from a different skillset from their openside flanker, and I think it is a real stretch to say that the attack coach dictates who we play at openside.
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
The revisionism on here is crazy... the arguments around Sotutu last year - totally fair and reasonable. But these claims around Akira Ioane are nonsensical. In his time in New Zealand, we had three different coaches, and none of them took a true liking to him.
Blaming Jase Ryan is just a lazy excuse. Akira got a good run, and played some decent footy in black between 20-22. Him losing his spot to Frizzell was a timing thing. Frizzell played the game of his life in the test which saved Foster's job, and largely backed that up (scored two tries in the RWC SF which is conveniently forgotten), and dominated the Boks at Mt Smart, so deservedly kept the shirt. Him being anonymous in the World Cup doesn't change that.
Ioane drifted from view because Finau had a superb 2023 Super campaign, and looked like our next star (like Fifita, Frizzell and Ioane before him). We only took one blindside to the World Cup and that was Frizzell. Scott Barrett was the backup 6.
If Akira was undeniable, he'd have been retained - but he wasn't. He was just another inconsistent blindside in a long line since Kaino - and there is nothing to suggest that his Super Rugby form would have all of a sudden translated to test rugby.
He played 21 tests in three years, Frizzell 33 in five years. It is a very similar ratio (half the tests in a year) because they were both inconsistent and neither could nail the shirt - just as is happening now with Samipeni Finau, and dare I say it, Simon Parker might go the same way.
It begs the question, are we asking too much of our blindside flanker?
Great post which I hope nips all this nonsense about Akira Ioane being the most hard done by All Black in history to bed. You can show his great games vs Australia til the cows come home, what about Frizzels massive game vs SA ? what about Vaea Fifita dominating Argentina like he did ? inconsistent performances like you said.
In saying all that he should have still been picked in Razors squad last year when you consider some of the other options that made it.
JC and JK were an extremely tough act to follow. A couple of absolute all time greats. The job description of a blindside might sound simple enough but by crikey it isn't easy in practice. No one has taken the mantle and there's nothing so far to suggest Finau or Parker will. Hopefully one proves me wrong.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@reprobate Crikey!
We were shit all season (probably excluding this game) but have you not gleaned the Fern assessments of these guys?
Shalfoon - soft thug
Strange - weak moron
Blackadder - Busy but ineffectual
Hotham - probably not awful
Reece - old, slow and useless
Havili - worse than Reece
Aumua - worse than Havili and the worst midfielder everThat's just the Ta$man players.
Not even as good as BOP.
