All Blacks 2025
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
These are circular arguments. Some people rate Ioane, others don't. The only thing that is a fact, was he was not consistent in black, and surely even his biggest supporters can admit this.
For whatever reason it didn't work in black, but to say he wasn't given a good chance isn't true, and to say it would have worked from 2024 onwards is purely hypothetical.
As I point out, outside of a short period from Liam Squire we have not had any degree of consistency out of a blindside flanker since Jerome Kaino. That comes back to the gameplan/our expectations, not who has worn the shirt.
Sotutu is a different case altogether.
None of the blindsides bar Frizell in his one huge game really fronted vs SA which is probably regarded as the ultimate test.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
he wasn't given a good chance isn't true,
just a note that I can't think of other players who the AB coach called out and kept out of the top 50 players in NZ. That shit was weird.
Plenty of players have been called out by All Blacks coaches before. The message clearly worked because Ioane came back fitter and cracked the ABs the year after.
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
For whatever reason it didn't work in black, but to say he wasn't given a good chance isn't true, and to say it would have worked from 2024 onwards is purely hypothetical.
The point is it would have been nice to find out given we aren't exactly flush with options. The talent was certainly there and like Frizell there were times at test level where it shone - but they chase Frizell and not Akira. Meanwhile we have been left with neither for 2 years.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
For whatever reason it didn't work in black, but to say he wasn't given a good chance isn't true, and to say it would have worked from 2024 onwards is purely hypothetical.
The point is it would have been nice to find out given we aren't exactly flush with options. The talent was certainly there and like Frizell there were times at test level where it shone - but they chase Frizell and not Akira. Meanwhile we have been left with neither for 2 years.
The 2024 Blues forwards played a style that IMHO fitted nicely with test match rugby. Just a waste we didn't harness that with tactics or selections
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@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ARHS said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Can we have a separate thread for the Akira and Sotutu revisionists? Too hard scrolling through for info on the AB XV
Do the Frizell revisionists get their own as well?
Razor's doing that with Mo'unga too. Bestest ever ten to play the game! The solution to all our woes! Will fix lineouts and porous defence, as well as hitting rucks, smashing people in tackles and, um, something something
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@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
For whatever reason it didn't work in black, but to say he wasn't given a good chance isn't true, and to say it would have worked from 2024 onwards is purely hypothetical.
The point is it would have been nice to find out given we aren't exactly flush with options. The talent was certainly there and like Frizell there were times at test level where it shone - but they chase Frizell and not Akira. Meanwhile we have been left with neither for 2 years.
The 2024 Blues forwards played a style that IMHO fitted nicely with test match rugby. Just a waste we didn't harness that with tactics or selections
the last bit of that might be the truest thing here...late hansen, fozzie and now razor have all decided how they wanted to play regardless of the players they had, none have looked at combos that were dominating super and said "damn....i can build something around that"
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@Nepia The only time Frizell gets brought up funnily enough is by people making revisionist arguments about Akira Ioane.
I think you'll struggle to find a post where someone has opened with, "We miss Shannon Frizell" "We should bring back Shannon Frizell"
It's almost as if we don't, and we shouldn't, and we should move on from both players.
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
What I find quite curious is Dalton Papali'i was basically dropped immediately after Leon MacDonald left.
That's not true.
Let me rephrase it then. His non selection coincides with Leon MacDonald leaving.
Whether he would have been selected had Papali'i not broken his thumb is speculative.
The attack coach would influence to the type of openside to play.
If the attack is to specialise is possession based such as the attack the Blues used in 2024 then its preferable to use an openside who is best at retaining possession. Papali'i is better than Savea at retaining possession.
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@frugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Nepia The only time Frizell gets brought up funnily enough is by people making revisionist arguments about Akira Ioane.
I think you'll struggle to find a post where someone has opened with, "We miss Shannon Frizell" "We should bring back Shannon Frizell"
It's almost as if we don't, and we shouldn't, and we should move on from both players.
Except the chance of Frizell being moved on from is much less than Akira being moved on from. There's been a steady stream of articles since 2023 about his eventual return to NZ. Now, it could be claimed as media hype, but in at least some of the articles they directly quote the coaches fawning over him.
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A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Have the coaches been chasing Frizell?
I know Ryan said he'd have preferred he hadn't left but presumably he was explicitly asked about Frizell. Have there been many examples over the last two years where the coaches have brought Frizell up?
I'll just leave this here
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@Chris said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
yes. glaringly yes.
however if you are also stuck in the wrong parts of the field. Or you are not going forward. Then just recycling shit possession is asking for even more trouble. slow ball to slow ball will just inevitably result in a penalty.
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@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I don't think Akira's and Hoskins' contributions in black aren't any worse than some of the guys who have been given extended runs (EB and Frizell come to mind). Coaches play favourites and always have. At the same time, both guys have been passed over by more than one AB coaching group. So perhaps both sides have elements of truth. Obviously we aren't seeing something that the coaches are. Or they are just plain wrong
I'm sorry but in what world has EB had an extended run in black?
The only thing that stopped his run was the fact he's made of glass. Wallace wouldn't have got a look in if Ethan had stayed fit
So, he didn't have an extended run then?
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@nzzp said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ARHS said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Can we have a separate thread for the Akira and Sotutu revisionists? Too hard scrolling through for info on the AB XV
Do the Frizell revisionists get their own as well?
Razor's doing that with Mo'unga too. Bestest ever ten to play the game! The solution to all our woes! Will fix lineouts and porous defence, as well as hitting rucks, smashing people in tackles and, um, something something
This place is going to light up like Chernobyl if RM comes back a shadow of RM 23. For the sake of our chances at RWC27 I hope he comes back at least that good
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@Chris said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
A quote from Scott Hansen on rugby pass
“We’ve had a good review of the most recent competition around where we can get some learnings, and fundamentally for us, that is about controlling possession.Here is an idea Scott change BB at 10 and you might control possession better.
A coach entrusted with development of a Test strategy who uses the word "learnings" is literally too fucking stupid to be employed in the office.
