All Blacks 2025
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
Vito went to France for the money. He had won a SR title and been part of two RWC-winning teams so probably thought it was time to cash in.
And it was big money from what is known. And all glory to him.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For Vito he was 28 when he left and had 30 odd tests under his belt. He was ready kick on after his apprenticeship and they should have nailed him down
Yeah I was so annoyed at the time, he was in his prime and we let him go. He was playing superior rugby to Read at the time and we kept the wrong guy with Read on his way down.
Didn't he win the European Player of the Year award in 2019?
Read was close to our best forward in 2015. The slide came after 2017.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For Vito he was 28 when he left and had 30 odd tests under his belt. He was ready kick on after his apprenticeship and they should have nailed him down
Yeah I was so annoyed at the time, he was in his prime and we let him go. He was playing superior rugby to Read at the time and we kept the wrong guy with Read on his way down.
Didn't he win the European Player of the Year award in 2019?
Read was close to our best forward in 2015. The slide came after 2017.
Hmmm, for some reason I felt he was in decline in 2015. Not saying I don't believe you, my recollection of him was just different.
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no way in 2015 would you have looked at Read not being there, he was a huge point of difference in our pack.
carrying him to 2019 was the mistake.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
no way in 2015 would you have looked at Read not being there, he was a huge point of difference in our pack.
carrying him to 2019 was the mistake.
Easy to say in hindsight. Hansen was never going to drop his captain and I'm not sure that a new coach in 2017 would have done so either
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don't get me wrong, it's a mistake i would have made as well. But he was definitely cooked.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For Vito he was 28 when he left and had 30 odd tests under his belt. He was ready kick on after his apprenticeship and they should have nailed him down
Yeah I was so annoyed at the time, he was in his prime and we let him go. He was playing superior rugby to Read at the time and we kept the wrong guy with Read on his way down.
Didn't he win the European Player of the Year award in 2019?
Read was close to our best forward in 2015. The slide came after 2017.
Hmmm, for some reason I felt he was in decline in 2015. Not saying I don't believe you, my recollection of him was just different.
There is truth to what you are saying. His play became inconsistent around this time and it was in part down to the issues he was having as a result of concussions he suffered in 2014.
For some reason a restart always sticks in my head of the Tonga pool match in 2015 which he fails to catch and which the 2012/13 version would have gathered with ease. He was back to his best by the end of the tournament but was definitely not at his best in 2014 and parts of 2015.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
no way in 2015 would you have looked at Read not being there, he was a huge point of difference in our pack.
carrying him to 2019 was the mistake.
At least the current selectors have learnt their lessons and there are no players past their use by date in the squad.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
no way in 2015 would you have looked at Read not being there, he was a huge point of difference in our pack.
carrying him to 2019 was the mistake.
At least the current selectors have learnt their lessons and there are no players past their use by date in the squad.
Thats funnier than your memes
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
no way in 2015 would you have looked at Read not being there, he was a huge point of difference in our pack.
carrying him to 2019 was the mistake.
At least the current selectors have learnt their lessons and there are no players past their use by date in the squad.
...or coaches eh
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
no way in 2015 would you have looked at Read not being there, he was a huge point of difference in our pack.
carrying him to 2019 was the mistake.
Easy to say in hindsight. Hansen was never going to drop his captain and I'm not sure that a new coach in 2017 would have done so either
The signs were definitely there that he was cooked though. It's not like he suddenly just hit a wall at RWC 19
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean What Squire went through was nothing to do with the coaches, and is not for a forum like this.
Yeah, best not to be shared around with what he was going through.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For Vito he was 28 when he left and had 30 odd tests under his belt. He was ready kick on after his apprenticeship and they should have nailed him down
Yeah I was so annoyed at the time, he was in his prime and we let him go. He was playing superior rugby to Read at the time and we kept the wrong guy with Read on his way down.
Didn't he win the European Player of the Year award in 2019?
Read was close to our best forward in 2015. The slide came after 2017.
Im talking about the end of 2016.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
no way in 2015 would you have looked at Read not being there, he was a huge point of difference in our pack.
carrying him to 2019 was the mistake.
Was it? Even though past his best who would've replaced him?
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
For Vito he was 28 when he left and had 30 odd tests under his belt. He was ready kick on after his apprenticeship and they should have nailed him down
Yeah I was so annoyed at the time, he was in his prime and we let him go. He was playing superior rugby to Read at the time and we kept the wrong guy with Read on his way down.
Didn't he win the European Player of the Year award in 2019?
Read was close to our best forward in 2015. The slide came after 2017.
Hmmm, for some reason I felt he was in decline in 2015. Not saying I don't believe you, my recollection of him was just different.
I remember him starting to look a bit clunky with his ball handling particularly in the air , but didn’t think it had reached the point where his position was under threat .
For me , Jerome was the most underrated loosie in that trio at the time, probably became more appreciated once he was gone .
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@kiwiinmelb the balance of a loose trio is a key part too, that trio had it all.
Brains, engine, brutality, power, pace, skills, versatile...
As many have said, as good as Ardie is, his presence, especially when at 8 impacts our ability to have a balanced loose.trio.
