Springboks v All Blacks 2
-
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nevorian said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Ardie definitely playing better without the burden of captaincy.
Huh? Cane is the captain.
Yeah but fair call. Being captain would be a burden and Ardie doesn’t have it.
@MN5 said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nevorian said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Ardie definitely playing better without the burden of captaincy.
Huh? Cane is the captain.
Yeah but fair call. Being captain would be a burden and Ardie doesn’t have it.
Muppet. When he did have the captaincy his form dropped off. You are correct that Cane is the captain but you wouldn’t know it sometimes
-
@MN5 said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nevorian said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Ardie definitely playing better without the burden of captaincy.
Huh? Cane is the captain.
Yeah but fair call. Being captain would be a burden and Ardie doesn’t have it.
Muppet. When he did have the captaincy his form dropped off. You are correct that Cane is the captain but you wouldn’t know it sometimes
-
@Crazy-Horse said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Jeez I chuckled when Savea got ragdolled by the SA lock as he went for the try.
ST got the yips a few times throwing into the lineout and over threw it. First time I have noticed him doing this at AB level.
Yeah that was absolutely ruthless from Etzebeth. He is a fucken monster. More than decent effort to do that to a powerhouse like Savea it has to be said.
-
@MN5 said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nevorian said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Ardie definitely playing better without the burden of captaincy.
Huh? Cane is the captain.
Yeah but fair call. Being captain would be a burden and Ardie doesn’t have it.
Muppet. When he did have the captaincy his form dropped off. You are correct that Cane is the captain but you wouldn’t know it sometimes
@Nevorian said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@MN5 said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nevorian said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Ardie definitely playing better without the burden of captaincy.
Huh? Cane is the captain.
Yeah but fair call. Being captain would be a burden and Ardie doesn’t have it.
Muppet. When he did have the captaincy his form dropped off. You are correct that Cane is the captain but you wouldn’t know it sometimes
It’s obviously too much of a burden
-
Yeah that was absolutely ruthless from Etzebeth. He is a fucken monster. More than decent effort to do that to a powerhouse like Savea it has to be said.
Savea. The next coming of Picamoles. Massive.
@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Yeah that was absolutely ruthless from Etzebeth. He is a fucken monster. More than decent effort to do that to a powerhouse like Savea it has to be said.
Savea. The next coming of Picamoles. Massive.
I loved Picamoles. Harinordiquay too. Also Chabal. French number 8’s are awesome.
-
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew You have to admit Vic that the new forward organisation has been a dramatic turnaround.
NZRs fault and it could make further improvementsOh I 100% agree they were better (as they were across the park). I don't want to sound like a Jeremiah, but we've been stung before with this team & I just want to manage my expectations
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
we've been stung before with this team
Our forwards haven't played like that in 3 years (or so) It proves what everybody on here to a man has been saying, coaching and organisation is the main problem.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nevorian said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Great to see the next generation of young front rowers playing well and matching it with the best.
Long may it continue. Credit to Foster & the selectors for bringing on new talent.
You having a laugh? DeGroot, Lomax, and Newell not initial selections. One of the biggest problems with Foster is his ultra-conservative selections.
Give it a rest. Not everything Foster does is 100% bad. He's brought on a lot of new talent and developed players like Akira, Sami & Bower.
As for his " ultra-conservative selections", that's just doesn't make sense. It's his off-the-wall selections which have caused problems on the field and caused Fern meltdowns. Jordie at wing, Frizzell & Paps at 6 are just a few.
Wow! Self-aware much? I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections. Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019. It seems the only times he goes outside the "family" is when he is forced.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
we've been stung before with this team
Our forwards haven't played like that in 3 years (or so) It proves what everybody on here to a man has been saying, coaching and organisation is the main problem.
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
we've been stung before with this team
Our forwards haven't played like that in 3 years (or so) It proves what everybody on here to a man has been saying, coaching and organisation is the main problem.
Games like that against Ireland in RWC2019 & one of the Bokke games in '21 (IIRC), were followed by plenty of games where the forwards were poor.
Look, I hope you are right and the improvement continues, but I wait to be convinced that Ryan has turned things around in just 2 games as I think it's going to take time and there will be ups and downs. Will be great if it continues against Argentina
-
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
He?? Foster is the only selector?
-
@pakman Yup, may already have been posted but yes Wayne Smith ...
The whiteboard session that proved Ma'a Nonu as an All Blacks great (https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-whiteboard-session-that-proved-maa-nonu-as-an-all-blacks-great/)
Rewatching the game now
... may post later@Mario said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@pakman Yup, may already have been posted but yes Wayne Smith ...
The whiteboard session that proved Ma'a Nonu as an All Blacks great (https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-whiteboard-session-that-proved-maa-nonu-as-an-all-blacks-great/)
Rewatching the game now
... may post laterLove that story!
-
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chester-Draws said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'm not buying that any of our problems have been fixed, except by accident (BB being sore) and the injection of a good forwards coach (forced onto the head coach).
I agree, there's loads more to work on.
And I don't buy the idea that Ryan has made instant, lasting improvements either - we have to wait and see f they are (hopefully) sustained.
Just a coincidence that his arrival has seen a marked improvement in several aspects of forward play
.Way too early to tell IMHO and as @nostrildamus and others have rightly pointed out, you can't expect instant improvement from a replacement coach. Would love to see it continue, though, against Argentina. They are a different proposition and that would be great to see.
In fairness, the AB forwards had shown the ability to go up the guts in a couple of games (French Nov test being the best example), but this was a step up on anything I've seen from ABs since the Irish QF in RWC 2019.
But they did it at the right time last night, weren't playing catch-up and managed the flow of the game really well. But it was only one game....
If anything, it looks like Ryan has simplified what he wants the AB forwards to do. Reducing the complexity reduces the over thinking, which frees the players to express themselves.
.Maybe, it would be a sensible approach and a quick win..
It looked like the players played with a bit of freedom finally. The pack played like one too. Cohesive and following the plan. It has been a while since they have done that.
And it seemed to me that across the team, the players relaxed a bit more and stopped trying too hard. Heck, they actually looked to be enjoying themselves out there at times last night
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chester-Draws said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'm not buying that any of our problems have been fixed, except by accident (BB being sore) and the injection of a good forwards coach (forced onto the head coach).
I agree, there's loads more to work on.
And I don't buy the idea that Ryan has made instant, lasting improvements either - we have to wait and see f they are (hopefully) sustained.
Just a coincidence that his arrival has seen a marked improvement in several aspects of forward play
.Way too early to tell IMHO and as @nostrildamus and others have rightly pointed out, you can't expect instant improvement from a replacement coach.
Actually I was referring to the head coach-needs some leeway to clean up Foster's mess.
I didn't say: if there is a new forwards coach and the forwards play better than before we shouldn't believe the evidence of our own eyes let alone the confirmation of the senior ABs that the new forwards coach is outstanding.But thanks for bringing me along on your fishing trip.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
He?? Foster is the only selector?
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
He?? Foster is the only selector?
Well, as Foster takes all the blame for picking Pat T & Karl T, I guess he must be.
-
Like others on here I thought Frizell had a pretty good game, perhaps his best in black. He has put in some bloody big shifts against the Saders so I can see why they keep going back to him. Hopefully he can build on this effort.
I hate to say it because I really want the guy to succeed, but it was noticeable when Akira came on and took the ball flat footed a couple of times.
@Crazy-Horse Yeah he did. He still managed to get over the advantage line to be fair, but yes, hopefully we see him charging onto the ball in future tests.
-
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
I have only had time to watch the first half so far and can I say our locks were outstanding. SB keeps worrying he has done something stupid and turns to the ref (a fantastic communicator btw) and it is funny to watch, but his energy and frustrating Bok ball was great, and Sam W did some great subtle rips and turnovers.
Sami T now cemented as my fave player especially that slow mo homage to the hippos in tutus in Fantasia's swan lake scene-the slow mo of him spinning and bouncing on his generously sized derriere to get that try is gloriously entertaining. It's all about the bass! Great joints on him too, probably would make a fine powerlifter. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
Well, either Foster makes all the selections or he doesn't. If it's the former he takes the can for the bad selections and the kudos for the good ones (like last night). If it's the latter then the stupid selections aren't all down to him.
Which do you think it is?
-
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
Well, either Foster makes all the selections or he doesn't. If it's the former he takes the can for the bad selections and the kudos for the good ones (like last night). If it's the latter then the stupid selections aren't all down to him.
Which do you think it is?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
1 Well, either Foster makes all the selections or he doesn't.
2 If it's the former he takes the can for the bad selections and the kudos for the good ones (like last night).
3 If it's the latter then the stupid selections aren't all down to him.
4 Which do you think it is?1 Either/or is not logically necessary, He could be primarily responsible for some of them or some could be team decisions or forced on him.
2 So this doesn't apply. What would be stronger from you would be to say it is unfair to blame him for the bad and not compliment him for the good (especially if we don't know who is responsible for specific selections)
3 Somebody could perhaps go back and match his I comments (I chose/I selected) with stupid/inspired selections...SF seems to be a Foster choice, then again SF played well mostly, this last game.What I can say with some evidence is that the coaching team Foster selected (and seemed very proud of) doesn't seem as strong as the one now. And that doesn't seem to be Foster's preferred choice (but now this is conjecture).
