All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Someone explain to me how SBW deserved a red card and Vunipola didn't. Both were straight shoulders to the head. I'm also interested in how you can get a penalty from jumping into tackles.
Because French.
And we got another one of the fluffybunnys next week.
@Frye said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Someone explain to me how SBW deserved a red card and Vunipola didn't. Both were straight shoulders to the head. I'm also interested in how you can get a penalty from jumping into tackles.
Because French.
And we got another one of the fluffybunnys next week.
I think Poite is one level lower down the randomness scale. Still random but ever so slightly less so.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?
So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?
So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?
I don't believe he did , but I do think he was trying to be aggressive and there wasn't enough thought going into it, it's like the driver going through a red light because he isn't concentrating enough , you have to be a lot smarter than that .
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@antipodean loved Reads comment to the ref. So we should all jump into tackles
@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@antipodean loved Reads comment to the ref. So we should all jump into tackles
Shame we can't backdate the rules, RC Gregan and Wilson gets a penalty try ...
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Fucking infringing Lions. If Gatland mentions All Black infringements again this week he can have his citizenship stripped.
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Fucking infringing Lions. If Gatland mentions All Black infringements again this week he can have his citizenship stripped.
Yep, SBW was dumb as fuck, Vunipola hitting BB as he did was pretty deliberate as well as dumb, should have resulted in same card.
I really hope we address the off side line, I don't recal Read asking for a warning after repeated infringements, I mean i didn't even know Itoje played for us.
Simple fact is, ref let them away with it, it worked in denying us any continuity or go forward, you ain't gonna stop unless on a warning.
Also interesting to see if anything comes from the swinging arm to Naholo, looked largely accidental, but we are all about protecting the head now.
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Fucking infringing Lions. If Gatland mentions All Black infringements again this week he can have his citizenship stripped.
Yep, SBW was dumb as fuck, Vunipola hitting BB as he did was pretty deliberate as well as dumb, should have resulted in same card.
I really hope we address the off side line, I don't recal Read asking for a warning after repeated infringements, I mean i didn't even know Itoje played for us.
Simple fact is, ref let them away with it, it worked in denying us any continuity or go forward, you ain't gonna stop unless on a warning.
Also interesting to see if anything comes from the swinging arm to Naholo, looked largely accidental, but we are all about protecting the head now.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Fucking infringing Lions. If Gatland mentions All Black infringements again this week he can have his citizenship stripped.
Yep, SBW was dumb as fuck, Vunipola hitting BB as he did was pretty deliberate as well as dumb, should have resulted in same card.
I really hope we address the off side line, I don't recal Read asking for a warning after repeated infringements, I mean i didn't even know Itoje played for us.
Simple fact is, ref let them away with it, it worked in denying us any continuity or go forward, you ain't gonna stop unless on a warning.
Also interesting to see if anything comes from the swinging arm to Naholo, looked largely accidental, but we are all about protecting the head now.
Realistcally Dub's was accidental too. Didn't think tgere eas a distinction.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
Quite similar in essence to TKB YC for Maori. I think it's fair to say that had TKB and SBW been the only tackers it is almost certain they would have used arms. Perhaps a technical issue AB wise men ought to address in training?
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?
So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?
I don't believe he did , but I do think he was trying to be aggressive and there wasn't enough thought going into it, it's like the driver going through a red light because he isn't concentrating enough , you have to be a lot smarter than that .
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?
So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?
I don't believe he did , but I do think he was trying to be aggressive and there wasn't enough thought going into it, it's like the driver going through a red light because he isn't concentrating enough , you have to be a lot smarter than that .
I don't disagree with that. It looked to me like a split second decision to go in and help Naholo out but had incredibly high risk given the angle he was coming in and the lack of chance to get two arms in there. He fucked up for sure but I really don't think he deliberately aimed a shoulder at the head. He aimed a shoulder into the players to make an impact but the risk of contacting head was too high and happened.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Fucking infringing Lions. If Gatland mentions All Black infringements again this week he can have his citizenship stripped.
Yep, SBW was dumb as fuck, Vunipola hitting BB as he did was pretty deliberate as well as dumb, should have resulted in same card.
I really hope we address the off side line, I don't recal Read asking for a warning after repeated infringements, I mean i didn't even know Itoje played for us.
Simple fact is, ref let them away with it, it worked in denying us any continuity or go forward, you ain't gonna stop unless on a warning.
Also interesting to see if anything comes from the swinging arm to Naholo, looked largely accidental, but we are all about protecting the head now.
Realistcally Dub's was accidental too. Didn't think tgere eas a distinction.
@booboo I think it was dumb because of the situation with another tackler already involved, sure the shoulder was accidental, but given the situation he only needed to wrap it up, no big hit required, whereas Vunipola needn't have even touched BB at all
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Oh and what's the go with this Sinckler cnut? Is he the tour tough guy? Twice last night he had his own players rush to pull him away from a scuffle, and now allegedly an incident in the tunnel involving him and surprise surprise, TJP, which started by Sinckler refusing to walk through the tunnel of players after the game
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Well done NZ.
Class from Read and Hansen.
This is a very special side. I can't think of another international side who could have competed against this BIL side with a man down for so long. And almost win it.
SBW aside they can be proud of their effort. They came to play, but that was curtailed by the sending off. In real time I thought it was a yellow. On reflection red was the correct call.
Garces was the worst kind of referee, inconsistent. At times he looked as if he was trying to balance the ledger, at others like he was making it up as he went along.
Thank goodness.
Despite almost clutching defeat from the jaws of victory I'm delighted that my Doomsday scenario didn't come to pass and the Lions proved me very wrong.
AWJ and Warburton had their best games on tour. O'Brien and Itoje were very good, and the rest of the pack went about their business with quiet steel. Our tackling was immense.
Vunipola has been criticised, but I think he was given the job of the Fall Guy. His transgressions kept Garces' gaze on him and our back 5 had free reign to ignore the offside line.
Wellington police need to be informed that Itoje has appropriated McCaw's Cloak of Invisibility.
Gatland certainly told his team to 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission' and they got away with as much as I could.
His try aside I thought Murray was average and Webb must be wondering what he has to do to get a run.
And I'm not convinced that the Sexton Farrell combo worked.
Despite plentiful, clean ball from scrum and line out the BILs created very little. Davies was the pick of the backs again I thought, and Farrell's pass to Williams to set up Faletau's try was top drawer.
A draw would have been a fair result but I'm very happy that we're going back to Eden Park with it all to play for.
But hopefully Gatland realises that he got out of jail with this result.
Hopefully he won't be fooled that he picked the right team.
I can understand why he would start the same team next week but if we have any chance of beating a 15-man NZ at Fortress Eden then Lawes needs to partner Itoje, with Henderson on the bench.
And I'd put Farrell back at 10 and Te'o at 12.
So on to Act Three, 'The Fall of Eden'
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
This is a very special side. I can't think of another international side who could have competed against this BIL side with a man down for so long. And almost win it.
It was an immense bloody-minded effort, but the 2nd-half first-20 minute penalty-deluge was what let NZ stay in the game - a coherent national side like England or Ireland would not have allowed that to happen.
.. sending off. In real time I thought it was a yellow. On reflection red was the correct call.
Real-time, the main side-view camera meant it was hard to see.
All other angles made it so clear that it is hard to believe a few people query it.Doing something so dumb is normally only seen from an over-eager novice
or someone on 70 minutes whose brain is oxygen-starved after 5 minutes of non-stop play.SBW deserves the full criticism for this specific action.
It seems like some people are using it to unload a back-log of criticism.Wellington police need to be informed that Itoje has appropriated McCaw's Cloak of Invisibility.
Itoje: educated at Harrow - maybe in some of the dark arts of Hogwarts-McCawesome-ball-expelliarmus?
But hopefully Gatland realises that he got out of jail with this result.
Too true.
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as a youngster in league leading with the shoulder was his trademark tackle , it was legal then and no one did it better, apparently he did it through his rep juniors.
I still get the impression with him its almost his instinctive technique , and he has to conitually fight that urge .
He fucked up for sure , and deserves the criticism -
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
This is a very special side. I can't think of another international side who could have competed against this BIL side with a man down for so long. And almost win it.
It was an immense bloody-minded effort, but the 2nd-half first-20 minute penalty-deluge was what let NZ stay in the game - a coherent national side like England or Ireland would not have allowed that to happen.
.. sending off. In real time I thought it was a yellow. On reflection red was the correct call.
Real-time, the main side-view camera meant it was hard to see.
All other angles made it so clear that it is hard to believe a few people query it.Doing something so dumb is normally only seen from an over-eager novice
or someone on 70 minutes whose brain is oxygen-starved after 5 minutes of non-stop play.SBW deserves the full criticism for this specific action.
It seems like some people are using it to unload a back-log of criticism.Wellington police need to be informed that Itoje has appropriated McCaw's Cloak of Invisibility.
Itoje: educated at Harrow - maybe in some of the dark arts of Hogwarts-McCawesome-ball-expelliarmus?
But hopefully Gatland realises that he got out of jail with this result.
Too true.
@Megweya haha, although I think McCaw was a bit more subtle in his actions, Itoje could been wearing a black jersey and would have been offside as much as McCaw
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Oh and what's the go with this Sinckler cnut? Is he the tour tough guy? Twice last night he had his own players rush to pull him away from a scuffle, and now allegedly an incident in the tunnel involving him and surprise surprise, TJP, which started by Sinckler refusing to walk through the tunnel of players after the game
@taniwharugby the guys a prize bell end and yes he does think he's a real tough guy
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Oh and what's the go with this Sinckler cnut? Is he the tour tough guy? Twice last night he had his own players rush to pull him away from a scuffle, and now allegedly an incident in the tunnel involving him and surprise surprise, TJP, which started by Sinckler refusing to walk through the tunnel of players after the game
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Oh and what's the go with this Sinckler cnut? Is he the tour tough guy? Twice last night he had his own players rush to pull him away from a scuffle, and now allegedly an incident in the tunnel involving him and surprise surprise, TJP, which started by Sinckler refusing to walk through the tunnel of players after the game
Perenara should suck it up and stop acting like a crying bitch
We lost and need to be humble about it
Seen plenty of yahooing and pats on the head from him when the Hurricanes win or get a call their way.
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Oh and I'm interested to hear from the Savea knockers regarding Ioane. You know, the ones that always have a go at him for sticking out in the wing and/or not getting involved enough, because apparently if you're a winger it's really easy to make play go your way.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Oh and what's the go with this Sinckler cnut? Is he the tour tough guy? Twice last night he had his own players rush to pull him away from a scuffle, and now allegedly an incident in the tunnel involving him and surprise surprise, TJP, which started by Sinckler refusing to walk through the tunnel of players after the game
Perenara should suck it up and stop acting like a crying bitch
We lost and need to be humble about it
Seen plenty of yahooing and pats on the head from him when the Hurricanes win or get a call their way.
@SammyC yep, his arm flapping and all round behaviour reminds me of Peter Stringer who I thought was a cnut!
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Oh and I'm interested to hear from the Savea knockers regarding Ioane. You know, the ones that always have a go at him for sticking out in the wing and/or not getting involved enough, because apparently if you're a winger it's really easy to make play go your way.
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Oh and I'm interested to hear from the Savea knockers regarding Ioane. You know, the ones that always have a go at him for sticking out in the wing and/or not getting involved enough, because apparently if you're a winger it's really easy to make play go your way.
Sure. Workrate when the play does go his way would be nice.
We might well get to see him attempt it in the third test.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.
A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.
Quit the whingeing lads, we're not Irish. Naholo concussion doesn't automatically equal foul play. Reckon there is zero zilch nada chance O'Brien will be cited for that.
Ref had some poor calls either way. Just like in every match ever played.
@Billy-Tell it wasn't necessarily foul play but it was a pin-point swinging arm to the temple. It's hard to judge intent but it certainly warranted further investigation.
