The Current State of Rugby
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VAR/TMO/3rd Umpire was brought in to stop fans whinging about how they were robbed. And absolutely nothing changed. In any sport it was introduced to.
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref. And will always find evidence to support their team being dudded. Sport is human endeavor, and human endeavor comes with errors. From players and officials.@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref.
At least on TSF posters are more generous and also blame (other)TSF posters as well.
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref.
At least on TSF posters are more generous and also blame (other)TSF posters as well.
@nostrildamus said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref.
At least on TSF posters are more generous and also blame (other)TSF posters as well.
yeah damn you, you have cost me teams so often over the years
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
Could be a case of careful what you wish for though... if we go towards this model, you would basically be taking props out the game, and would be going more towards an U85 style of game, because you'd need to be so fit, as there would be far fewer stoppages.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
The outcome of all but the worst infringements was a free kick. Other team was wrong? fine you get the ball.
have said similar for ages, points because someone is a 0.5m offside or because you have a stronger scrum seems excessive
Could be a case of careful what you wish for though... if we go towards this model, you would basically be taking props out the game, and would be going more towards an U85 style of game, because you'd need to be so fit, as there would be far fewer stoppages.
not sure i agree, still want that dominant scrum to launch off of or go for tightheads and the free kick (so a free 10m) or clearing kick still on the table
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@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
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@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
it would also allow you more freedom to choose the speed of the play.
Want to slow it down? Take a breather. Get everyone set. Hoist a bomb or something
Want to play fast? take the tap and go quickRight now a penalty takes the wind out of the game. All parties slowly disengage from the ruck. Quick committee meeting, then eventually a kick down field. Walk/jog to the lineout. Go through the theatre there.
Even if you want to go fast, you kick quickly, the other team puts a lock down in the middle of the lineout to tie a shoe or get treatment.It is incredibly difficult to put speed in to a game at the moment, as full penalties give ample time for gamesmanship. You aren't putting guys down for treatment if there are constant free kicks.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
it would also allow you more freedom to choose the speed of the play.
Want to slow it down? Take a breather. Get everyone set. Hoist a bomb or something
Want to play fast? take the tap and go quickRight now a penalty takes the wind out of the game. All parties slowly disengage from the ruck. Quick committee meeting, then eventually a kick down field. Walk/jog to the lineout. Go through the theatre there.
Even if you want to go fast, you kick quickly, the other team puts a lock down in the middle of the lineout to tie a shoe or get treatment.It is incredibly difficult to put speed in to a game at the moment, as full penalties give ample time for gamesmanship. You aren't putting guys down for treatment if there are constant free kicks.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby but is having a dominant scrum something you should reward with penalties?
Penalising a team for not being as good kinda defeats the purpose of the game, especially when quite often scrum penalties are a bit of a lottery, even some of the ones awarded to a dominant scrum arent correct.
Depends though. At the end of the day, what is the difference between a player standing up in the scrum, because the opposite prop applies too much pressure, and a player is caught offside/failing to roll, because the other teams cleanouts are so good it gives them great ball speed. It is basically the same concept?
I think at times, the ref should tell the halfback to use it. The second shunt penalty is a nonsense imo.
thats another one, players deliberately pinning a tackler into a ruck and screaming for a penalty....if the ball is available who cares if hes offside....if its not then give the dominate ruck the ball and play on
it would also allow you more freedom to choose the speed of the play.
Want to slow it down? Take a breather. Get everyone set. Hoist a bomb or something
Want to play fast? take the tap and go quickRight now a penalty takes the wind out of the game. All parties slowly disengage from the ruck. Quick committee meeting, then eventually a kick down field. Walk/jog to the lineout. Go through the theatre there.
Even if you want to go fast, you kick quickly, the other team puts a lock down in the middle of the lineout to tie a shoe or get treatment.It is incredibly difficult to put speed in to a game at the moment, as full penalties give ample time for gamesmanship. You aren't putting guys down for treatment if there are constant free kicks.
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
You aren't putting guys down for treatment if there are constant free kicks.
no, because a quick tap and they'll blow through you and turn a 10m advantage into much more, free kick means eyes up, if im defending deep, do i come up incase my forwards dont retreat fast enough or do i stay back for a kick?
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Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
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@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby not that I expect that would happen, but that is kinda what needs to happen, speed the game up to see fitter smaller players, would lessen some of the collisions between the big bodies.
You’ve just described 7s
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@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
It was cool to see Uruguay do well, and as I said, it is good that they were able to compete through set piece, but I wouldn't have described it as a great spectacle. Not necessarily anyone's fault, you are always going to get games like this from time to time.
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@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
It was cool to see Uruguay do well, and as I said, it is good that they were able to compete through set piece, but I wouldn't have described it as a great spectacle. Not necessarily anyone's fault, you are always going to get games like this from time to time.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
It was cool to see Uruguay do well, and as I said, it is good that they were able to compete through set piece, but I wouldn't have described it as a great spectacle. Not necessarily anyone's fault, you are always going to get games like this from time to time.
They had far more to offer than just set piece
Them v Italy could be one of the games of the tournament
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@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
It was cool to see Uruguay do well, and as I said, it is good that they were able to compete through set piece, but I wouldn't have described it as a great spectacle. Not necessarily anyone's fault, you are always going to get games like this from time to time.
They had far more to offer than just set piece
Them v Italy could be one of the games of the tournament
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
It was cool to see Uruguay do well, and as I said, it is good that they were able to compete through set piece, but I wouldn't have described it as a great spectacle. Not necessarily anyone's fault, you are always going to get games like this from time to time.
They had far more to offer than just set piece
Them v Italy could be one of the games of the tournament
I never said they didn't, but it was a key part in allowing them to compete. They were very good at stopping the rolling maul, and they worked a few scrum penalties, allowing them to find territory.
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@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
It was cool to see Uruguay do well, and as I said, it is good that they were able to compete through set piece, but I wouldn't have described it as a great spectacle. Not necessarily anyone's fault, you are always going to get games like this from time to time.
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@frugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
Classic example was this morning's game. 25 scrums, 25 lineouts, 30 penalties made for an absolute snoozefest.
You must have been watching a different game from me
It was cool to see Uruguay do well, and as I said, it is good that they were able to compete through set piece, but I wouldn't have described it as a great spectacle. Not necessarily anyone's fault, you are always going to get games like this from time to time.
I really enjoyed the game, maybe just seeing people actually seemingly having fun, sometimes I think the pursuit of the highest possible levels…kills the enjoyment
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@nostrildamus said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Fans (and losing coaches) will always blame the ref.
At least on TSF posters are more generous and also blame (other)TSF posters as well.
yeah damn you, you have cost me teams so often over the years
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
yeah damn you, you have cost me teams so often over the years
Foster hasn't sent me a Christmas card for years..
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Yeah I'm firmly on this train. During some of these endless breaks and video reviews I have more than enough time to have a shower, shave and a long poo. Reminds me why I stopped my subscription to Stan. International rugby is absolutely shit as a spectacle and if I wasn't this invested after 40 odd years I'd happily spend my time doing other things.
The game is still wonderful. It's great just watching it at school level. But fŭck this TV product.
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Yeah I'm firmly on this train. During some of these endless breaks and video reviews I have more than enough time to have a shower, shave and a long poo. Reminds me why I stopped my subscription to Stan. International rugby is absolutely shit as a spectacle and if I wasn't this invested after 40 odd years I'd happily spend my time doing other things.
The game is still wonderful. It's great just watching it at school level. But fŭck this TV product.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah I'm firmly on this train. During some of these endless breaks and video reviews I have more than enough time to have a shower, shave and a long poo. Reminds me why I stopped my subscription to Stan. International rugby is absolutely shit as a spectacle and if I wasn't this invested after 40 odd years I'd happily spend my time doing other things.
The game is still wonderful. It's great just watching it at school level. But fŭck this TV product.
The girl came into the lounge this morning and bemoaned the fact that the Rugby was STILL on…….( not that we have any exciting plans for a typically windy Wellington day but it’s the principle )
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah I'm firmly on this train. During some of these endless breaks and video reviews I have more than enough time to have a shower, shave and a long poo. Reminds me why I stopped my subscription to Stan. International rugby is absolutely shit as a spectacle and if I wasn't this invested after 40 odd years I'd happily spend my time doing other things.
The game is still wonderful. It's great just watching it at school level. But fŭck this TV product.
The girl came into the lounge this morning and bemoaned the fact that the Rugby was STILL on…….( not that we have any exciting plans for a typically windy Wellington day but it’s the principle )
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Current State of Rugby:
Yeah I'm firmly on this train. During some of these endless breaks and video reviews I have more than enough time to have a shower, shave and a long poo. Reminds me why I stopped my subscription to Stan. International rugby is absolutely shit as a spectacle and if I wasn't this invested after 40 odd years I'd happily spend my time doing other things.
The game is still wonderful. It's great just watching it at school level. But fŭck this TV product.
The girl came into the lounge this morning and bemoaned the fact that the Rugby was STILL on…….( not that we have any exciting plans for a typically windy Wellington day but it’s the principle )
Yeah I don't have time to make a day of it.
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One thing that would be a great improvement is automating the offside line policing with cameras and AI. So the refs aren't directly involved, just get a word in their ear, and can focus on other things.
At the moment, the constant 0.5m offsides make for a shit spectacle, and it's only ever randomly policed.
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
And even if I am wrong, it 8s most certainly not the sport I played a little over a decade ago
The professional game has been moving away from the rest of us for years. Because money.
That has been going on for - literally - decades, and has always been inferior based on your reasoning when compared to league.
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
The professional game has been moving away from the rest of us for years. Because money.
In England, the professional game seems to have imploded. Might just be a good thing and force a re-think here at all levels.
Not too sure that the game itself is getting less a spectacle or enjoyable. The 6N's have developed into a really high quality event in the last few years - close games, unexpected results and some outstanding rugby.
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Yeah I'm firmly on this train. During some of these endless breaks and video reviews I have more than enough time to have a shower, shave and a long poo. Reminds me why I stopped my subscription to Stan. International rugby is absolutely shit as a spectacle and if I wasn't this invested after 40 odd years I'd happily spend my time doing other things.
The game is still wonderful. It's great just watching it at school level. But fŭck this TV product.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Current State of Rugby:
The game is still wonderful. It's great just watching it at school level. But fŭck this TV product.
This in a nutshell. When the game is driven by what makes a good TV spectacle, it loses out. Anthems, Haka and then on with the game - the commercial breaks before kick-off make me want to throw a brick at the TV.
