All Blacks 2023
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@Stargazer Different profiles though. If they want a hard ball-carrier, Tupaea and McLeod would be better bets than Havili imo.
@frugby Not the same distribution and kicking skills though. Also not the same versatility and experience. At this time of the year, with little time to go before the RWC, Havili is a far more usefull squaddie than Tupaea and McLeod. They are for the future.
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I think it's fair to say we are playing a significantly different style now, compared to the helter skelter stuff of the last two years. Jordie has been a big upgrade with his direct runs. I wonder if Havili, assuming he makes the cut, would be encouraged to play a more direct game and could he do this successfully if needed?
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@frugby Not the same distribution and kicking skills though. Also not the same versatility and experience. At this time of the year, with little time to go before the RWC, Havili is a far more usefull squaddie than Tupaea and McLeod. They are for the future.
@Stargazer Did you read what I said? I said, of they are looking for a like-for-like option, they might have Tupaea and McLeod in mind.
It wasn't a comment on Havili's overall ability, though that in itself can be debated, because he hasn't exactly set the world on fire at test level...
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@Stargazer Did you read what I said? I said, of they are looking for a like-for-like option, they might have Tupaea and McLeod in mind.
It wasn't a comment on Havili's overall ability, though that in itself can be debated, because he hasn't exactly set the world on fire at test level...
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby They are not like for like. They're super green, inexperienced and unproven.
In play styles, they are way more similar to Jordie Barrett than Havili is - so like for like.
By your argument, Sam Whitelock and Aaron Smith are like for like because they're both proven and highly experienced.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby They are not like for like. They're super green, inexperienced and unproven.
In play styles, they are way more similar to Jordie Barrett than Havili is - so like for like.
By your argument, Sam Whitelock and Aaron Smith are like for like because they're both proven and highly experienced.
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If we want ineffective ball running, wayward kicking, and distributing to Scottish players for runaways, Havili is our guy fir sure
If we want someone to come in and do Jordie's role, then it's not David
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby They are not like for like. They're super green, inexperienced and unproven.
In play styles, they are way more similar to Jordie Barrett than Havili is - so like for like.
By your argument, Sam Whitelock and Aaron Smith are like for like because they're both proven and highly experienced.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby They are not like for like. They're super green, inexperienced and unproven.
In play styles, they are way more similar to Jordie Barrett than Havili is - so like for like.
By your argument, Sam Whitelock and Aaron Smith are like for like because they're both proven and highly experienced.
the rest if us knew what you meant, im sure not all agreed but knew what you meant
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
By your argument, Sam Whitelock and Aaron Smith are like for like because they're both proven and highly experienced.
No, they're not. They play in different positions. Stop twisting my words.
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
By your argument, Sam Whitelock and Aaron Smith are like for like because they're both proven and highly experienced.
No, they're not. They play in different positions. Stop twisting my words.
By like for like, I was quite clearly referring to play style. Nothing to do with experience.
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God i hope Havili doesn't go
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
God i hope Havili doesn't go
I am sorry my son, but David is a near certainty. You may pray for something else, though.
I know what you mean. He would be extremely handy for the Mako.
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They're like for like in that they are big bodies that can run it straight, jordie has a more full court game. He's played every position in the abs beyond 9, and has a lot of strings to how bow. McLeod and Tup not so much
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
They're like for like in that they are big bodies that can run it straight, jordie has a more full court game. He's played every position in the abs beyond 9, and has a lot of strings to how bow. McLeod and Tup not so much
Absolutely correct. That's why I originally said, if they want a hard ball-carrier, which to me has been the most important part of Barrett's game this year, then the other two are more like for like than Havili.
The most like for like in the other regard would be Sam Gilbert, but he is very much a Jordie Barrett lite, who does everything Barrett does, except slightly worse, barring the fact he is the greatest goal kicker of all time.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
By your argument, Sam Whitelock and Aaron Smith are like for like because they're both proven and highly experienced.
No, they're not. They play in different positions. Stop twisting my words.
By like for like, I was quite clearly referring to play style. Nothing to do with experience.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
God i hope Havili doesn't go
I am sorry my son, but David is a near certainty. You may pray for something else, though.
I know what you mean. He would be extremely handy for the Mako.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
God i hope Havili doesn't go
I am sorry my son, but David is a near certainty. You may pray for something else, though.
I know what you mean. He would be extremely handy for the Mako.
i think so too, but it's a wasted spot IMO
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@frugby Yes, but you made the comment in relation to a "backdoor entrance", so a spot in the RWC squad. And that's unlikely to happen for the reasons I mentioned.
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby Yes, but you made the comment in relation to a "backdoor entrance", so a spot in the RWC squad. And that's unlikely to happen for the reasons I mentioned.
Once again, did you read what I said? If they have now decided they want a hard ball-carrier, then it is entirely possible they opt for Tupaea over Havili - which would be a backdoor entrance into the World Cup squad.
You're disputing the likelihood of the overall scenario, not the statement. I literally have said several times I think Havili will go to the World Cup, I'm just suggesting another possibility.
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They're like for like in that they are big bodies that can run it straight, jordie has a more full court game. He's played every position in the abs beyond 9, and has a lot of strings to how bow. McLeod and Tup not so much
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
jordie has a more full court game
not convinced of the distribution yet, but the carries are so effective. The game plan on the weekend especially meant he spent most of the time keeping us on the front foot rather than releasing the outsides.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
God i hope Havili doesn't go
I am sorry my son, but David is a near certainty. You may pray for something else, though.
I know what you mean. He would be extremely handy for the Mako.
i think so too, but it's a wasted spot IMO
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
God i hope Havili doesn't go
I am sorry my son, but David is a near certainty. You may pray for something else, though.
I know what you mean. He would be extremely handy for the Mako.
i think so too, but it's a wasted spot IMO
Dave's alright - just needs to be reined in to be a role player in that backline if he happens to be required in a big match.
If we had better options, they should have pushed him out already.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
God i hope Havili doesn't go
I am sorry my son, but David is a near certainty. You may pray for something else, though.
I know what you mean. He would be extremely handy for the Mako.
i think so too, but it's a wasted spot IMO
Dave's alright - just needs to be reined in to be a role player in that backline if he happens to be required in a big match.
If we had better options, they should have pushed him out already.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
God i hope Havili doesn't go
I am sorry my son, but David is a near certainty. You may pray for something else, though.
I know what you mean. He would be extremely handy for the Mako.
i think so too, but it's a wasted spot IMO
Dave's alright - just needs to be reined in to be a role player in that backline if he happens to be required in a big match.
If we had better options, they should have pushed him out already.
Lol the only reason jordie use there is because of injury, despite him being carried for by all and sundry. Once you aware ensconced in a foster team, you're in. See the front row for another example
He's a fine midfielder, but not how foster ABs use 12s. Closer to Owen Farrell, then nonu or jordie
