All Blacks 2023
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Random thought: 3 of the most contentious tactics of the Fozz era for me, the helter skelter lack of pattern, the cross kicks from everywhere, and spinning it wide way too early have all but been removed from our game plan. So any talk of the last 4 years being all about a planned tactical refinement at the expense of results is probably a bit generous
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@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2023:
Me too I won't forget that record loss to the boks and neither will they or their fans
had you remembed the previous record loss?
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2023:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2023:
Me too I won't forget that record loss to the boks and neither will they or their fans
had you remembed the previous record loss?
I did
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2023:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2023:
Me too I won't forget that record loss to the boks and neither will they or their fans
had you remembed the previous record loss?
Yes another that foster was involved in versus Oz in Perth 2019. Same as the previous amount, 21, versus wallabies in 99
Did Scott Barrett get red carded in both of those?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2023:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks 2023:
Me too I won't forget that record loss to the boks and neither will they or their fans
had you remembed the previous record loss?
Yes another that foster was involved in versus Oz in Perth 2019. Same as the previous amount, 21, versus wallabies in 99
Did Scott Barrett get red carded in both of those?
Yup, man's a slow learner
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
cross kicks from everywhere
Conspicuous by their absence this morning ...
@booboo said in All Blacks 2023:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
cross kicks from everywhere
Conspicuous by their absence this morning ...
JB attempted one. And it was an attacking one
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2023:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
cross kicks from everywhere
Conspicuous by their absence this morning ...
JB attempted one. And it was an attacking one
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2023:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
cross kicks from everywhere
Conspicuous by their absence this morning ...
JB attempted one. And it was an attacking one
So did Mounga.
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Wonder what input Wayne Smith has had on the team, did he give McLeod some advice?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
So how many of this squad either will play thier last game in black, or already have?
Coles, Whitelock, Retallick, Frizzel, Smith, Mounga, Beaudie...
Sure some may come back, but too often that never works.
Yeah, it's going to be really weird seeing the ABs without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith and BB.
I hate this part of the cycle. 4 guys all in the conversation for all-time AB 23s all going.
Fuuuck I hope they go out like the 2015 guys. But not everyone gets a fairytale.Sobs
As long as they don't believe they deserve a fairy tale ending, then they're in with a pretty good chance
Somehow I think, looking at body language, that thought isn't in anyone's heads
It was a dig at sexcovkwomble saying a quarter final exit is not what he deserved
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
So how many of this squad either will play thier last game in black, or already have?
Coles, Whitelock, Retallick, Frizzel, Smith, Mounga, Beaudie...
Sure some may come back, but too often that never works.
Yeah, it's going to be really weird seeing the ABs without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith and BB.
I hate this part of the cycle. 4 guys all in the conversation for all-time AB 23s all going.
Fuuuck I hope they go out like the 2015 guys. But not everyone gets a fairytale.Sobs
As long as they don't believe they deserve a fairy tale ending, then they're in with a pretty good chance
Somehow I think, looking at body language, that thought isn't in anyone's heads
It was a dig at sexcovkwomble saying a quarter final exit is not what he deserved
Fuck no way! He actually said that?
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
Even a friendly requires two teams to show up
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So how many of this squad either will play thier last game in black, or already have?
Coles, Whitelock, Retallick, Frizzel, Smith, Mounga, Beaudie...
Sure some may come back, but too often that never works.
@taniwharugby Ryan likes Shannon, he might return.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
So how many of this squad either will play thier last game in black, or already have?
Coles, Whitelock, Retallick, Frizzel, Smith, Mounga, Beaudie...
Sure some may come back, but too often that never works.
Yeah, it's going to be really weird seeing the ABs without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith and BB.
I hate this part of the cycle. 4 guys all in the conversation for all-time AB 23s all going.
Fuuuck I hope they go out like the 2015 guys. But not everyone gets a fairytale.Sobs
As long as they don't believe they deserve a fairy tale ending, then they're in with a pretty good chance
Somehow I think, looking at body language, that thought isn't in anyone's heads
It was a dig at sexcovkwomble saying a quarter final exit is not what he deserved
Fuck no way! He actually said that?
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2023:
So how many of this squad either will play thier last game in black, or already have?
Coles, Whitelock, Retallick, Frizzel, Smith, Mounga, Beaudie...
Sure some may come back, but too often that never works.
Yeah, it's going to be really weird seeing the ABs without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith and BB.
I hate this part of the cycle. 4 guys all in the conversation for all-time AB 23s all going.
Fuuuck I hope they go out like the 2015 guys. But not everyone gets a fairytale.Sobs
As long as they don't believe they deserve a fairy tale ending, then they're in with a pretty good chance
Somehow I think, looking at body language, that thought isn't in anyone's heads
It was a dig at sexcovkwomble saying a quarter final exit is not what he deserved
Fuck no way! He actually said that?
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
Even a friendly requires two teams to show up
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
Even a friendly requires two teams to show up
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
Even a friendly requires two teams to show up
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
Even a friendly requires two teams to show up
FIFY noob
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A comment, if I may
IMO the past 7 days is the best the ABs have looked since 2015. Everything looks so together and accurate
And, I also think it's different to even July. The attack has a different shape, the defence is definitely different. We're not "playing the same but better", we're playing different to be better.
And while yes, it's different, with hindsight you can see.thr building blocks from earlier. The selections, the tactics. Dry powder is a running joke, but I'm starting to believe it's real. We (and I doubt it's just us) do little bits of the ultimate plan with a longer game in mind.
We've bemoaned endless seemingly pointless phases. And here we are using thrm to wear out defences and kill the rush. We've bemoaned the passive defence but here it is, soaking attack, frustrating attacks that have been prepared to unlock the rush. The passive kick chase is clearly a tactic, I don't understand it, but the players very much do.
There has been a long game played here. We've learned what works and what doesn't. The teams who set out their stall years ago turned up (by the barest of margins) and got found out.
The coaches clearly played a long game. A long game that has pissed us off, but they have stuck to it. They've learned lessons, made necessary changes, adapted, and not shown the world how until last Saturday. I think Ireland last year was the catalyst.
Now look, it might all get pulled apart next week, because south africa are fucking good, and sometimes you just get beat. But I think some credit is due here.
I'm not sure how I feel about it TBH, but if they pull this off, then I need to eat shit tons of.humble pie
@mariner4life
I think it's a headspace improvement. Sure, Schmidt & Ryan have made a difference, but it's the focus that's improved so much for meBody language, demeanour and the ability to remain calm when under pressure is on another level.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
And the second half against England
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
i really hope he doesnt just walk back into the crusaders/AB's, Id hope over 4 years we have the next our guys coming through, come back and earn it...great? come back and handed it because no one else has stepped up? worrying
I don't necessarily think it is as simple as that, but if you look at the current 10s, who will be the ones we are looking at over the next four years, I don't have any great conviction in any of them.
Blues:
Perofeta - Is he a 10? Is he good enough anyway?
Sullivan - Quality potential, but again, is he a 10?
Cashmore - Not seen enough, but unlikely to be that goodChiefs:
McKenzie - Will get first crack, and will in theory be the man in the interim, but how will he go when he loses a yard of pace... massively reliant on it
Ioane - No
Trask - Don't think soHurricanes:
Morgan - No
Cameron - Maybe? Hasn't really done it yet, perhaps next year is his year, but hardly strikes confidence, and isn't actually that youngCrusaders:
Burke - Potential, needs a big Super season, then we will see. Could be a squad option, but doesn't give me the vibe of a top All Black 10
Kemara - The fact the Chiefs didn't really want him might well speak volumes
Reihana - NoHighlanders:
Millar - Similar to Burke, but obviously less proven, and can't stay fit
Faleafaga - Reads the game exceptionally well, and is probably the best running 10 of any of the real up and comers, but his kicking game is massively lackingObviously there are Jacombs and others, but we are talking about a guy to be the All Black first five. Look at the recent All Black 10s, then look at those ones. Think it is entirely possible nobody fills the void, Mo'unga comes back, and has a good Super season, and fairly waltzs back in.
David Havili.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
I'm starting to think Ian Foster is a massive player and fucked your wives
Every time he did the wives gave him a cookie
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
I'm starting to think Ian Foster is a massive player and fucked your wives
Every time he did the wives gave him a cookie
A packet, surely?
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
No, fuck with knobs the administrators who scheduled a game which forced TWM to choose between beating Boks and winning RWC.
It’s a stain that will stay on the books for decades and only marginally reduced if we do the Boks in the Finale.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
Even a friendly requires two teams to show up
@canefan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2023:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2023:
@Stag said in All Blacks 2023:
Does it mean that we have actually have had the cattle for the last 4 years, but the coaching hasn’t been up to it until the last 6 weeks?
In fairness, since Ryan and Schmidt took real power, barring that loss to Argentina at home, which even then was only just after they'd come in, we've been good results wise.
Apart from the record loss to SA, our worst loss ever
I mean sure, but that was a warmup game. It was a pure cash grab where neither side was seriously trying anything too dramatic.
Fuck that attitude, it was a test match versus the boks
That's typically my attitude, but I was there and it was clear it was as close to a friendly as you can get. Almost felt like being at the 7s - just a bit of fun on and off the field. I keep forgetting it happened.
Even a friendly requires two teams to show up
We did, but only for a half.
