All Blacks 2024
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
I think this is a dig at a ferner who suggested racism when some Crusaders players made it over some Blues players.
One of the weirdest debates on the Fern I can remember.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
I think this is a dig at a ferner who suggested racism when some Crusaders players made it over some Blues players.
One of the weirdest debates on the Fern I can remember.
One person saying something brain dead and everyone else rubbishing it isn’t much of a debate, and it was only posted once.
An unfortunate distraction from the Super Rugby player of the year not being selected, yet journeymen players who barely have played and a novice, who again hasn’t played all that much (and was dominated in the last game against each other) were.
Has made Foster look like a selection genius and eroded Razors mythical man management reputation.
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Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
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Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s? -
This thread is beautiful. Giving nostalgic Suitcase selection threads vibes in the best way.
For what it’s worth, Sotutu would’ve been in my RWC squad and I’d have tried an Ardie, Hoskins, Frizzel backrow. He’d be a nightmare to deal with defensively and the knock on his workrate without the ball seems to be contrived bullshit - nothing that different tactics and some coaching tweaks couldn’t fix anyway.
But you can understand why two successive coaching regimes ain’t keen to move the deserved World Player of the Year to shoehorn in some guy who hasn’t set the world alight in his admittedly limited chances at test level.
And as good as Sotutu has been, there isn’t much to choose between him and the younger and slightly more versatile Sititi for the backup 8 spot if you’re trying to build a squad.
Just doesn’t seem such an outrageous omission. On the other hand, if I were a Blues fan I’d also be fuming. Because fuck that one eyed, breakdancing cantab fluffybunny that’s why.
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This thread is beautiful. Giving nostalgic Suitcase selection threads vibes in the best way.
For what it’s worth, Sotutu would’ve been in my RWC squad and I’d have tried an Ardie, Hoskins, Frizzel backrow. He’d be a nightmare to deal with defensively and the knock on his workrate without the ball seems to be contrived bullshit - nothing that different tactics and some coaching tweaks couldn’t fix anyway.
But you can understand why two successive coaching regimes ain’t keen to move the deserved World Player of the Year to shoehorn in some guy who hasn’t set the world alight in his admittedly limited chances at test level.
And as good as Sotutu has been, there isn’t much to choose between him and the younger and slightly more versatile Sititi for the backup 8 spot if you’re trying to build a squad.
Just doesn’t seem such an outrageous omission. On the other hand, if I were a Blues fan I’d also be fuming. Because fuck that one eyed, breakdancing cantab fluffybunny that’s why.
Sititi has had 7 starts in super rugby. Sotutu has had a whole lot more rugby than him.
Sititi could quite easily find the step up to test rugby too much and be back playing NPC in a couple of months getting some more experience with a few ‘work ons’
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This thread is beautiful. Giving nostalgic Suitcase selection threads vibes in the best way.
For what it’s worth, Sotutu would’ve been in my RWC squad and I’d have tried an Ardie, Hoskins, Frizzel backrow. He’d be a nightmare to deal with defensively and the knock on his workrate without the ball seems to be contrived bullshit - nothing that different tactics and some coaching tweaks couldn’t fix anyway.
But you can understand why two successive coaching regimes ain’t keen to move the deserved World Player of the Year to shoehorn in some guy who hasn’t set the world alight in his admittedly limited chances at test level.
And as good as Sotutu has been, there isn’t much to choose between him and the younger and slightly more versatile Sititi for the backup 8 spot if you’re trying to build a squad.
Just doesn’t seem such an outrageous omission. On the other hand, if I were a Blues fan I’d also be fuming. Because fuck that one eyed, breakdancing cantab fluffybunny that’s why.
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Sititi has had 7 starts in super rugby. Sotutu has had a whole lot more rugby than him.
Sititi could quite easily find the step up to test rugby too much and be back playing NPC in a couple of months getting some more experience with a few ‘work ons’
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Sititi has had 7 starts in super rugby. Sotutu has had a whole lot more rugby than him.
Sititi could quite easily find the step up to test rugby too much and be back playing NPC in a couple of months getting some more experience with a few ‘work ons’
So like Sotutu every time he's been selected then?
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Sititi has had 7 starts in super rugby. Sotutu has had a whole lot more rugby than him.
Sititi could quite easily find the step up to test rugby too much and be back playing NPC in a couple of months getting some more experience with a few ‘work ons’
So like Sotutu every time he's been selected then?
Yeah, especially if he gets the same treatment soutuu got when he got a start after 2 months of gym work…
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@Smuts said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Frizzel
Being unavailable for selection, this might be a good tactic to make EB look decent, prolly wouldn't hurt his reputation at test level too much either.
@Bones could go either way really. Whoever gets that 6 jumper is going to be compared to Frizzle’s highlights not the long stretches he spent impersonating Thorne.
And EB’s got a way to go to convince me he can even be a reasonable suitcase. But since Sotutu doesn’t seem to be considered as a viable 6 that’s irrelevant to the present discussion
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Sititi has had 7 starts in super rugby. Sotutu has had a whole lot more rugby than him.
Sititi could quite easily find the step up to test rugby too much and be back playing NPC in a couple of months getting some more experience with a few ‘work ons’
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Sititi has had 7 starts in super rugby. Sotutu has had a whole lot more rugby than him.
Sititi could quite easily find the step up to test rugby too much and be back playing NPC in a couple of months getting some more experience with a few ‘work ons’
Absolutely - though on the limited evidence, you can understand the coaches’ gamble. They have a bloody good eight whose going to be around for a good while. Makes sense to work with a player who looks to be a viable long term replacement and in the interim might solve their blindside problem or at least offers bench versatility.
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Foster refused to pick anyone young and he got criticised for his excessively cautious selection policy.
Razor picks a couple of youngsters -- and gets it in the neck for not picking the most experienced in every position.
Since I feel Foster was wrong -- and one reason we are having this argument about these picks is precisely because the second-string players didn't get enough AB time -- then it follows that I have to accept some wildcard selections. Once you start picking youngsters, you are bound to upset someone.
If we don't start picking the likes of SItiti and Bell, who have lots of time to come right -- Asafo Aumua took ages to grow into his potential, for example -- then we will find that our situation with lacking experienced youngsters gets worse and worse.
My concern is that we desperately need locks, and that is where the current selection has conspicuously failed to take a punt.
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Foster refused to pick anyone young and he got criticised for his excessively cautious selection policy.
Razor picks a couple of youngsters -- and gets it in the neck for not picking the most experienced in every position.
Since I feel Foster was wrong -- and one reason we are having this argument about these picks is precisely because the second-string players didn't get enough AB time -- then it follows that I have to accept some wildcard selections. Once you start picking youngsters, you are bound to upset someone.
If we don't start picking the likes of SItiti and Bell, who have lots of time to come right -- Asafo Aumua took ages to grow into his potential, for example -- then we will find that our situation with lacking experienced youngsters gets worse and worse.
My concern is that we desperately need locks, and that is where the current selection has conspicuously failed to take a punt.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Foster refused to pick anyone young and he got criticised for his excessively cautious selection policy.
Quinn Tupaea, Fainga'anuku, Vaaai, Roigard, De Groot, Newell, Roigard, Sami T were all under 23 or thereabouts when Foster picked them -there's probably others I've forgotten.
Razor picks a couple of youngsters -- and gets it in the neck for not picking the most experienced in every position.
The main criticism (at least on here) has been he didn't pick on form (Sotutu), picked a 28 yr-old in poor form (Perofeta) and Christie and BB on experience rather than Hotham/Funaki and Harry Plummer.
Since I feel Foster was wrong -- and one reason we are having this argument about these picks is precisely because the second-string players didn't get enough AB time
I can't see that changing much under Robertson - certainly not in his first season. Hope I'm wrong.
Once you start picking youngsters, you are bound to upset
someone.True. See my points on Foster's & Robertson's choices and people's reactions
If we don't start picking the likes of SItiti and Bell, who have lots of time to come right -- Asafo Aumua took ages to grow into his potential, for example -- then we will find that our situation with lacking experienced youngsters gets worse and worse.
Robertson has plenty of time and access to the best talent in NZ, so there's really no excuse for players not growing under his reign.
My concern is that we desperately need locks, and that is where the current selection has conspicuously failed to take a punt.
Absolutely agree. But it's going to take time to develop locks and Robertson has picked what he thinks are his best current options at 4 and 5 while looking to the future. Vaa'i has 25 caps and is only 24. Lord, if not injured, is a prospect and Darry is the next cab off the rank. I can't see what else he could do.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?One of the most effective loose forwards in the comp in a dysfunctional team when playing. Hence pretty much every pundit outside this echo chamber putting his name in the mix.
Being made of glass and a lack of a body of work is a reasonable argument though... -
Razor was an AB loose forward
He knows what he wants from his loose forwards for his gameplan, lets just give the guy a chance to impress.
If we suck then bring out the daggers, but for now there is so much stupid speculation.
But I guess why are we here if not for the speculation, so carry on. -
I am most disappointed about Plummer missing out. Surely with DMac and BB in the squad and likely in the starting 15 Perofeta's ability to play 15 and 10 is not as vital. With the dearth of quality 10s in NZ it seems important to start developing now. Plummer to me has more upside as a 10 than Perofeta.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
I am most disappointed about Plummer missing out. Surely with DMac and BB in the squad and likely in the starting 15 Perofeta's ability to play 15 and 10 is not as vital. With the dearth of quality 10s in NZ it seems important to start developing now. Plummer to me has more upside as a 10 than Perofeta.
Perofeta has been picked as a 15... one of the coaches (Holland on the radio?) said this, so it is a moot point. Plummer was effectively competing with McKenzie, and maybe McKenzie only.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
I am most disappointed about Plummer missing out. Surely with DMac and BB in the squad and likely in the starting 15 Perofeta's ability to play 15 and 10 is not as vital. With the dearth of quality 10s in NZ it seems important to start developing now. Plummer to me has more upside as a 10 than Perofeta.
Perofeta has been picked as a 15... one of the coaches (Holland on the radio?) said this, so it is a moot point. Plummer was effectively competing with McKenzie, and maybe McKenzie only.
@frugby for me its the everyone covering every position thing
so in the case plummer has missed out to BB really as he is the 10 cover....but hes also probably first choice at 15
i dont know why one of the wings wasnt dropped....BB considered an outside back (which he is) and then Plummer comes in as an actual 10 cover
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For me,
its too early to be making judgements, im going in with an open mind and going to judge the current group on results
it is interesting though that the contensious selections that we argue over, are usually the last 5 or so selections that dont see alot of gametime usually anyway.
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For me,
its too early to be making judgements, im going in with an open mind and going to judge the current group on results
it is interesting though that the contensious selections that we argue over, are usually the last 5 or so selections that dont see alot of gametime usually anyway.
@kiwiinmelb thats fair and as ive said before....i hope we smash everyone....i just think i'll be less forgiving if we dont and some of the decisions are the reason
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For me,
its too early to be making judgements, im going in with an open mind and going to judge the current group on results
it is interesting though that the contensious selections that we argue over, are usually the last 5 or so selections that dont see alot of gametime usually anyway.
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
For me,
its too early to be making judgements, im going in with an open mind and going to judge the current group on results
Which is what everyone should be doing of course.
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@kiwiinmelb thats fair and as ive said before....i hope we smash everyone....i just think i'll be less forgiving if we dont and some of the decisions are the reason
@Kiwiwomble yep we are a tough crowd to please but it’s that high expectation that has made us successful, long may it continue.
