All Blacks 2024
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@george33 said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@foobaNZ don't no, he hasn't played for weeks, injury wise were is he at ?
you're confused...you normally tell us
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Maybe it's the one eyed Canes fan in me but I feel like Lakai has been doing for 2 years what Sititi did for 2 months.
Not saying Sititi doesn't deserve it, far from it. But wonder why they went that way over Lakai.
@foobaNZ said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Maybe it's the one eyed Canes fan in me but I feel like Lakai has been doing for 2 years what Sititi did for 2 months.
Not saying Sititi doesn't deserve it, far from it. But wonder why they went that way over Lakai.
I don't think Sititi was competing with Lakai. Lakai has been playing 7 so was competing with Dalton and Jacobson.
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@frugby for me its the everyone covering every position thing
so in the case plummer has missed out to BB really as he is the 10 cover....but hes also probably first choice at 15
i dont know why one of the wings wasnt dropped....BB considered an outside back (which he is) and then Plummer comes in as an actual 10 cover
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@frugby for me its the everyone covering every position thing
so in the case plummer has missed out to BB really as he is the 10 cover....but hes also probably first choice at 15
i dont know why one of the wings wasnt dropped....BB considered an outside back (which he is) and then Plummer comes in as an actual 10 cover
Picking all four wingers felt like a cop out, but it will be interesting to see whether Narawa or Perofeta drops out when Jordan returns.
I also think in a lot of positions, the selections basically scream of we don't rate what else is available, so we will pick someone in another position...
Props are the props, they've picked the best available.
Hookers, Taukei'aho is injured, they rate Bell as a potential option so have picked him
Locks, Lord is injured, Holland is unavailable, they don't rate the other options so therefore only picked three. Darry is there as cover, but only as the next best option because they have to have someone. If they rated him, he'd have been picked in the squad, because picking three locks is absolutely braindead.
Loose forwards, Cane is injured, so one of Blackadder of Jacobson is in there as cover for him (suppose it could be Sititi, but seems unlikely). Not much to debate here.
Halfbacks, Roigard is injured, but loads of good options so they've picked the next best three.
First Fives, McKenzie and Barrett viewed as the only legitimate options, in my mind they don't rate Plummer, Cameron etc. as viable options right now, and don't view Millar etc. to have done enough to yet show they are worth having in the squad like they have done with Bell.
Midfielders, again a cop out selection. They've picked three centres, because they either don't rate, or more likely don't rate the form of McLeod or Tupaea, who are quite clearly the closest in archetype to Barrett. Therefore, easy thing to do is kick the can down the road by picking Procter and ALB, who are both centres
Outside backs, they've picked four wingers, which I reckon you'd be hard-pressed to find an All Blacks squad of the past with four specialist wings. Narawa in theory used to play fullback, but I doubt the ABs would ever play him there. In my mind, if they rated Love, Stevenson, JRK etc. they'd have been there over Narawa, but they don't at this stage so have kicked the can down the road.
I think Love is probably the most unfortunate to have missed the squad, as to me Barrett/Perofeta will play 15, so either you need an extra fullback or an extra 10, and using BB at 10 with Love in the squad as the other 15 makes more sense.
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Maybe it's the one eyed Canes fan in me but I feel like Lakai has been doing for 2 years what Sititi did for 2 months.
Not saying Sititi doesn't deserve it, far from it. But wonder why they went that way over Lakai.
@foobaNZ he makes a 36 man squad. Razor has picked a team for 3 games. He needs experience against England. Lakai is in the future plans. Just not for this series.
Did Sotutu do what the coaches asked him to work on 3-4 months ago. Fitness and defence. We all know he’s great with ball in hand.
Caleb Clarke was told you’re too big and need to lose weight. He’s worked hard and done it. Look at him now, he’s playing amazing. -
I've come around on the Bell selection. The optics aren't great but if they see Bell as a future long term test hooker then I can see why they went for him over Riccitelli
With all the Sotutu talk what gets lost is how good of a prospect Sititi is. Really excited to see how he develops. With his ability to cover 7 he could really push for a bench impact spot later in the season if he impresses behind the scenes
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
I've come around on the Bell selection. The optics aren't great but if they see Bell as a future long term test hooker then I can see why they went for him over Riccitelli
This season is the first time I have noticed Bell having the throwing yips and I didn't think his game around the park was too bad. It makes me wonder if there was more going on at the Saders that contributed to him not being able to hit a barn door.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@frugby for me its the everyone covering every position thing
so in the case plummer has missed out to BB really as he is the 10 cover....but hes also probably first choice at 15
i dont know why one of the wings wasnt dropped....BB considered an outside back (which he is) and then Plummer comes in as an actual 10 cover
Picking all four wingers felt like a cop out, but it will be interesting to see whether Narawa or Perofeta drops out when Jordan returns.
I also think in a lot of positions, the selections basically scream of we don't rate what else is available, so we will pick someone in another position...
Props are the props, they've picked the best available.
Hookers, Taukei'aho is injured, they rate Bell as a potential option so have picked him
Locks, Lord is injured, Holland is unavailable, they don't rate the other options so therefore only picked three. Darry is there as cover, but only as the next best option because they have to have someone. If they rated him, he'd have been picked in the squad, because picking three locks is absolutely braindead.
Loose forwards, Cane is injured, so one of Blackadder of Jacobson is in there as cover for him (suppose it could be Sititi, but seems unlikely). Not much to debate here.
Halfbacks, Roigard is injured, but loads of good options so they've picked the next best three.
First Fives, McKenzie and Barrett viewed as the only legitimate options, in my mind they don't rate Plummer, Cameron etc. as viable options right now, and don't view Millar etc. to have done enough to yet show they are worth having in the squad like they have done with Bell.
Midfielders, again a cop out selection. They've picked three centres, because they either don't rate, or more likely don't rate the form of McLeod or Tupaea, who are quite clearly the closest in archetype to Barrett. Therefore, easy thing to do is kick the can down the road by picking Procter and ALB, who are both centres
Outside backs, they've picked four wingers, which I reckon you'd be hard-pressed to find an All Blacks squad of the past with four specialist wings. Narawa in theory used to play fullback, but I doubt the ABs would ever play him there. In my mind, if they rated Love, Stevenson, JRK etc. they'd have been there over Narawa, but they don't at this stage so have kicked the can down the road.
I think Love is probably the most unfortunate to have missed the squad, as to me Barrett/Perofeta will play 15, so either you need an extra fullback or an extra 10, and using BB at 10 with Love in the squad as the other 15 makes more sense.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
First Fives, McKenzie and Barrett viewed as the only legitimate options, in my mind they don't rate Plummer, Cameron etc. as viable options right now, and don't view Millar etc. to have done enough to yet show they are worth having in the squad like they have done with Bell.
I'm not sure I buy this exactly. There's a bit more to it for this particular squad.
For example - in this squad make up without Jordan - if you assume they want to run DMac at 10 then Perofeta is the next fullback option if Beauden goes down.
If they picked Plummer he would be 3rd in line at 10.
Perofeta's ability to play fullback gives him the edge over Plummer.
I would like to see Plummer given the opportunity to cover 15 as he is a superior 10 but time will tell.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
First Fives, McKenzie and Barrett viewed as the only legitimate options, in my mind they don't rate Plummer, Cameron etc. as viable options right now, and don't view Millar etc. to have done enough to yet show they are worth having in the squad like they have done with Bell.
I'm not sure I buy this exactly. There's a bit more to it for this particular squad.
For example - in this squad make up without Jordan - if you assume they want to run DMac at 10 then Perofeta is the next fullback option if Beauden goes down.
If they picked Plummer he would be 3rd in line at 10.
Perofeta's ability to play fullback gives him the edge over Plummer.
I would like to see Plummer given the opportunity to cover 15 as he is a superior 10 but time will tell.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
First Fives, McKenzie and Barrett viewed as the only legitimate options, in my mind they don't rate Plummer, Cameron etc. as viable options right now, and don't view Millar etc. to have done enough to yet show they are worth having in the squad like they have done with Bell.
I'm not sure I buy this exactly. There's a bit more to it for this particular squad.
For example - in this squad make up without Jordan - if you assume they want to run DMac at 10 then Perofeta is the next fullback option if Beauden goes down.
If they picked Plummer he would be 3rd in line at 10.
Perofeta's ability to play fullback gives him the edge over Plummer.
I would like to see Plummer given the opportunity to cover 15 as he is a superior 10 but time will tell.
So if Jordan was fit, who would have missed the squad? If anything Perofeta has been picked as a 15 because he can cover 10, not the other way around. This squad doesn't have three first fives in it. Will Jordan being injured has nothing to do with the makeup of the first fives, and everything to do with the make up of the outside backs.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
First Fives, McKenzie and Barrett viewed as the only legitimate options, in my mind they don't rate Plummer, Cameron etc. as viable options right now, and don't view Millar etc. to have done enough to yet show they are worth having in the squad like they have done with Bell.
I'm not sure I buy this exactly. There's a bit more to it for this particular squad.
For example - in this squad make up without Jordan - if you assume they want to run DMac at 10 then Perofeta is the next fullback option if Beauden goes down.
If they picked Plummer he would be 3rd in line at 10.
Perofeta's ability to play fullback gives him the edge over Plummer.
I would like to see Plummer given the opportunity to cover 15 as he is a superior 10 but time will tell.
So if Jordan was fit, who would have missed the squad? If anything Perofeta has been picked as a 15 because he can cover 10, not the other way around. This squad doesn't have three first fives in it. Will Jordan being injured has nothing to do with the makeup of the first fives, and everything to do with the make up of the outside backs.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
First Fives, McKenzie and Barrett viewed as the only legitimate options, in my mind they don't rate Plummer, Cameron etc. as viable options right now, and don't view Millar etc. to have done enough to yet show they are worth having in the squad like they have done with Bell.
I'm not sure I buy this exactly. There's a bit more to it for this particular squad.
For example - in this squad make up without Jordan - if you assume they want to run DMac at 10 then Perofeta is the next fullback option if Beauden goes down.
If they picked Plummer he would be 3rd in line at 10.
Perofeta's ability to play fullback gives him the edge over Plummer.
I would like to see Plummer given the opportunity to cover 15 as he is a superior 10 but time will tell.
If anything Perofeta has been picked as a 15 because he can cover 10, not the other way around.
That's essentially my point. By picking Perofeta at 15 I don't see that as them saying they don't rate Plummer as a 10.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@frugby for me its the everyone covering every position thing
so in the case plummer has missed out to BB really as he is the 10 cover....but hes also probably first choice at 15
i dont know why one of the wings wasnt dropped....BB considered an outside back (which he is) and then Plummer comes in as an actual 10 cover
Picking all four wingers felt like a cop out, but it will be interesting to see whether Narawa or Perofeta drops out when Jordan returns.
I also think in a lot of positions, the selections basically scream of we don't rate what else is available, so we will pick someone in another position...
Props are the props, they've picked the best available.
Hookers, Taukei'aho is injured, they rate Bell as a potential option so have picked him
Locks, Lord is injured, Holland is unavailable, they don't rate the other options so therefore only picked three. Darry is there as cover, but only as the next best option because they have to have someone. If they rated him, he'd have been picked in the squad, because picking three locks is absolutely braindead.
Loose forwards, Cane is injured, so one of Blackadder of Jacobson is in there as cover for him (suppose it could be Sititi, but seems unlikely). Not much to debate here.
Halfbacks, Roigard is injured, but loads of good options so they've picked the next best three.
First Fives, McKenzie and Barrett viewed as the only legitimate options, in my mind they don't rate Plummer, Cameron etc. as viable options right now, and don't view Millar etc. to have done enough to yet show they are worth having in the squad like they have done with Bell.
Midfielders, again a cop out selection. They've picked three centres, because they either don't rate, or more likely don't rate the form of McLeod or Tupaea, who are quite clearly the closest in archetype to Barrett. Therefore, easy thing to do is kick the can down the road by picking Procter and ALB, who are both centres
Outside backs, they've picked four wingers, which I reckon you'd be hard-pressed to find an All Blacks squad of the past with four specialist wings. Narawa in theory used to play fullback, but I doubt the ABs would ever play him there. In my mind, if they rated Love, Stevenson, JRK etc. they'd have been there over Narawa, but they don't at this stage so have kicked the can down the road.
I think Love is probably the most unfortunate to have missed the squad, as to me Barrett/Perofeta will play 15, so either you need an extra fullback or an extra 10, and using BB at 10 with Love in the squad as the other 15 makes more sense.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Locks, Lord is injured, Holland is unavailable, they don't rate the other options so therefore only picked three. Darry is there as cover, but only as the next best option because they have to have someone. If they rated him, he'd have been picked in the squad, because picking three locks is absolutely braindead.
I think what they’ve done there is perfectly understandable. If they rate Lord (which I think they do) then they won’t necessarily want to bring Darry in ‘officially’ yet.
Plus they have Finau in the squad who is more than capable of covering lock for in game options if required. Again with a smaller squad those calls have to be made.
In a 36 man squad they pick another prop, lock, loosie and 10/utility back
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Locks, Lord is injured, Holland is unavailable, they don't rate the other options so therefore only picked three. Darry is there as cover, but only as the next best option because they have to have someone. If they rated him, he'd have been picked in the squad, because picking three locks is absolutely braindead.
I think what they’ve done there is perfectly understandable. If they rate Lord (which I think they do) then they won’t necessarily want to bring Darry in ‘officially’ yet.
Plus they have Finau in the squad who is more than capable of covering lock for in game options if required. Again with a smaller squad those calls have to be made.
In a 36 man squad they pick another prop, lock, loosie and 10/utility back
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Locks, Lord is injured, Holland is unavailable, they don't rate the other options so therefore only picked three. Darry is there as cover, but only as the next best option because they have to have someone. If they rated him, he'd have been picked in the squad, because picking three locks is absolutely braindead.
I think what they’ve done there is perfectly understandable. If they rate Lord (which I think they do) then they won’t necessarily want to bring Darry in ‘officially’ yet.
> Plus they have Finau in the squad who is more than capable of covering lock for in game options if required. Again with a smaller squad those calls have to be made.
In a 36 man squad they pick another prop, lock, loosie and 10/utility back
Is this actually true or are you saying it because he appears to be the tallest of the loose forwards ?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Locks, Lord is injured, Holland is unavailable, they don't rate the other options so therefore only picked three. Darry is there as cover, but only as the next best option because they have to have someone. If they rated him, he'd have been picked in the squad, because picking three locks is absolutely braindead.
I think what they’ve done there is perfectly understandable. If they rate Lord (which I think they do) then they won’t necessarily want to bring Darry in ‘officially’ yet.
> Plus they have Finau in the squad who is more than capable of covering lock for in game options if required. Again with a smaller squad those calls have to be made.
In a 36 man squad they pick another prop, lock, loosie and 10/utility back
Is this actually true or are you saying it because he appears to be the tallest of the loose forwards ?
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The selectors have said he can cover lock. He's started at least 3 games for the Chiefs at lock (in 2021 & 2022)
I'm not a fan of using him that way
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
The selectors have said he can cover lock. He's started at least 3 games for the Chiefs at lock (in 2021 & 2022)
I'm not a fan of using him that way
That’ll have to do ( which speaks volumes about NZs locking depth )
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
The selectors have said he can cover lock. He's started at least 3 games for the Chiefs at lock (in 2021 & 2022)
I'm not a fan of using him that way
That’ll have to do ( which speaks volumes about NZs locking depth )
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
The selectors have said he can cover lock. He's started at least 3 games for the Chiefs at lock (in 2021 & 2022)
I'm not a fan of using him that way
That’ll have to do ( which speaks volumes about NZs locking depth )
It might say more about not wanting to have 4 locks in a 32 man squad (and one of the 3 locks you have is captain so potentially he is being eyed up to play 80 mins). If you include Darry in the 32 man squad you have to replace someone.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?One of the most effective loose forwards in the comp in a dysfunctional team when playing. Hence pretty much every pundit outside this echo chamber putting his name in the mix.
Being made of glass and a lack of a body of work is a reasonable argument though...@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?One of the most effective loose forwards in the comp in a dysfunctional team when playing. Hence pretty much every pundit outside this echo chamber putting his name in the mix.
Being made of glass and a lack of a body of work is a reasonable argument though...So you think he was this effective at both 6 and 7 (and actually he may be a backup at 8)?
My issue is twofold: they let BB back in without playing in NZ ( can see Ardie stood up at RWC and this was the deal) but they let Akira go who is arguably a better 6 than EB-this year and far less injury prone and a more experienced AB for a game that has hardly any prep time.
At 8 I can see them picking 2, and favouring Sititi over Sotutu but it still seems a bit harsh for a guy to achieve his work ons, be MVP, set a record for try-scoring for a loosie and then be told he needs to work more on the other side of the ball-he seems punished for the Blues being so effective at not allowing much of the other side of the ball. -
@george33 said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Clarke most likely miss both England tests now
whats his injury?
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@george33 said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Clarke most likely miss both England tests now
whats his injury?
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Clarke most likely miss both England tests now
whats his injury?
I expect ribs.
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@george33 said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Clarke most likely miss both England tests now
whats his injury?
@Kiwiwomble Ribs , also hearing Scott Barrett very doubtful
