All Blacks 2024
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Is Ryan right in wanting fucking Frizzel back?
No
I totally agree, but then who?
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Have just been informed Ruben Love is out with a quad tear, expected to be a 4-6 week recovery. Unsure if/who anyone has been called into the squad in his place.
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
Have just been informed Ruben Love is out with a quad tear, expected to be a 4-6 week recovery. Unsure if/who anyone has been called into the squad in his place.
Makes sense. He had a huge ice pack on his thigh after the Shield game
I would imagine Perofeta takes his place and Plummer stays
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@brodean weren't you just advocating for Riccitelli? To me he is totally a workrate guy? He's certainly not as physically powerful as Aumua, Taylor, or Samisoni.
Guys like Retallick and Whitelock are gold, because they have workrate and size.
I totally agree we have too many similar loosies, and need some size there. But who do we even have, really? Hoskins should have been picked, sure - but while he is reasonably physical, it's his skills that set him apart. Akira is leaving. I have a hunch you wouldn't be keen on Grace (and nor am I). Finau was picked and given a starter's chance.
There's some young fellas with potential, but nobody who has dominated at Super - in fact most of the other super loosies are similarly small aren't they? Is Ryan right in wanting fucking Frizzel back?Given that Aumua spent most of his time on the wing for the Hurricanes, Ricketelli was the most effective up the middle carrying hooker in Super Rugby apart from Taukei'aho.
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@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.May I present Exhibit A m'lord
Malcolm Marx
Great scrummager, reliable throwing in, great at the breakdown, fast and mobile support player -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Maybe Ryan is worse than Mains then.
How can there be zero starting Blues players in the forwards who had the most dominant pack in Super Rugby?
The Blues props and hooker aren't as good, and Pat was a starter but has been injured. Darry has been called in.
Dalton vs Cane is neither here nor there (I'd go Dalton due to age myself).
Akira going overseas.
Hoskins competing with world player of the year.I strongly disagree with them not picking Hoskins, but the rest I don't find surprising really.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Maybe Ryan is worse than Mains then.
How can there be zero starting Blues players in the forwards who had the most dominant pack in Super Rugby?
The Blues props and hooker aren't as good, and Pat was a starter but has been injured. Darry has been called in.
Dalton vs Cane is neither here nor there (I'd go Dalton due to age myself).
Akira going overseas.
Hoskins competing with world player of the year.I strongly disagree with them not picking Hoskins, but the rest I don't find surprising really.
From a management perspective I’d have thought it might have made sense to ensure that we didn’t contemporaneously lose to Japan our two most physical 6s. So should had made it worth Akira’s while to stay at least until Frizzel returned.
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@brodean weren't you just advocating for Riccitelli? To me he is totally a workrate guy? He's certainly not as physically powerful as Aumua, Taylor, or Samisoni.
Guys like Retallick and Whitelock are gold, because they have workrate and size.
I totally agree we have too many similar loosies, and need some size there. But who do we even have, really? Hoskins should have been picked, sure - but while he is reasonably physical, it's his skills that set him apart. Akira is leaving. I have a hunch you wouldn't be keen on Grace (and nor am I). Finau was picked and given a starter's chance.
There's some young fellas with potential, but nobody who has dominated at Super - in fact most of the other super loosies are similarly small aren't they? Is Ryan right in wanting fucking Frizzel back?@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean weren't you just advocating for Riccitelli? To me he is totally a workrate guy? He's certainly not as physically powerful as Aumua, Taylor, or Samisoni.
absolutely. But he's not competing with them; he's competing for the fringe role against Bell when there are injuries.
But the chance of shitting the bed in his core roles (throwing the lineout) is way lower than Bell's. And by not picking him the chance of him pissing off overseas goes up. No one would flinch if Bell was with the squad as a development project, but he's there on a full contract. If I was RR, I would be pissed and looking overseas because the path to Black seems blocked.
You're one injury away from the 3rd hooker coming on to throw some defensive lineouts a tthe end of a tight testmatch. I know who I'd rather have doing that role.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.May I present Exhibit A m'lord
Malcolm Marx
Great scrummager, reliable throwing in, great at the breakdown, fast and mobile support player@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.May I present Exhibit A m'lord
Malcolm Marx
Great scrummager, reliable throwing in, great at the breakdown, fast and mobile support playerIt’s interesting you mention Marx as pretty much everyone would agree that he is a far better player than Bongi.
But does he provide more impact/value in the last 35/40 minutes of the game as opposed to playing 55 minutes from the start?
Have to hand it to Rassie, he has been fine tuning this approach for 5 years and we are just now thinking how we can combat it.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.May I present Exhibit A m'lord
Malcolm Marx
Great scrummager, reliable throwing in, great at the breakdown, fast and mobile support playerIt’s interesting you mention Marx as pretty much everyone would agree that he is a far better player than Bongi.
But does he provide more impact/value in the last 35/40 minutes of the game as opposed to playing 55 minutes from the start?
Have to hand it to Rassie, he has been fine tuning this approach for 5 years and we are just now thinking how we can combat it.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
We got good mileage against England by having a dominant scrum once the reserves came on. Scrum penalties are huge on relieving defensive pressure and creating attacking pressure, so if you have reserves who are significantly better than the oppositions front row reserves, then that can be an effective impact option.
Rassie has been proven right time and again that forwards get more tired than backs - that's hardly rocket science - but we can't seem to figure it out despite his example.
The 1st SA game showed that you need players on the field at the end of the game who can deal with pressure. The 2nd SA game showed that experience does not equal 'able to deal with pressure'.
Traditional NZ thinking has a guy like Aumua as a great impact sub. He may be in future, but until his lineout throwing is reliable coming on late under pressure, he's a liability despite being an amazing player.
Defences do get sloppier, so ball runners can be a good option. Rucks get messier, so a turnover merchant would get more opportunities.
I just don't think we give it enough thought at all.May I present Exhibit A m'lord
Malcolm Marx
Great scrummager, reliable throwing in, great at the breakdown, fast and mobile support playerHave to hand it to Rassie, he has been fine tuning this approach for 5 years and we are just now thinking how we can combat it.
Some of the braindead shit that has come out of the AB camp over the past few years has pissed me off. You never know how much to believe it of course, but things like:
'we don't worry about the bomb squad tactics, we just worry about our own game', and re the 50-22 rule change: 'we haven't really looked at that, rugby is a simple game and we're focusing on our basics'. -
Maybe Ryan is worse than Mains then.
How can there be zero starting Blues players in the forwards who had the most dominant pack in Super Rugby?
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Maybe Ryan is worse than Mains then.
How can there be zero starting Blues players in the forwards who had the most dominant pack in Super Rugby?
Papalii and Tuipulotu were starting until injury... and as an extension, the tight five has been perfectly fine. Samapeni Finau, Shannon Frizell, heck even Sotutu and Ioane in the past have shown that Super Rugby form does not always equate to ABs form - very different style of rugby.
If you think Ofa, Riccitelli, Renata, etc. are making a difference to the ABs, you're either an idiot or a Blues fan.
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I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
That team would be one of the top 3 squads in AB history. Totally stacked, totally rooted our expectations
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I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
@voodoo yep and I think when you look at that 1st 5 crisis thread, if you think we had Smith-DC-Nonu-Smith, 4 greats of our game together alot of the time, any that follow will always be poorer...I mean all 4 could have had a slightly off day and still as good as our current crops good day.
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@voodoo yep and I think when you look at that 1st 5 crisis thread, if you think we had Smith-DC-Nonu-Smith, 4 greats of our game together alot of the time, any that follow will always be poorer...I mean all 4 could have had a slightly off day and still as good as our current crops good day.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@voodoo yep and I think when you look at that 1st 5 crisis thread, if you think we had Smith-DC-Nonu-Smith, 4 greats of our game together alot of the time, any that follow will always be poorer...I mean all 4 could have had a slightly off day and still as good as our current crops good day.
One of them could have stayed in the dressing room and the other 3 still be as good as the current lot...
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I wonder what Umaga, McDonald, Mauger, Dermody, Plumtree, might have done had they been lucky enough to have had Whitelock, Barrett, Taylor and Mo'unga at Super Rugby level...
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I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
I remember our only complaint it was a bit boring around team naming , it picked itself
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact'
A very basic, and fundamental question he asked was: why couldn't the reserves come on before half time? Maybe you get 35 good minutes out of a prop? Why not do it in reverse?
I guess most people would say well what do you do if there's an injury just after half-time then?""
To which Rassie says Í'll just bring the other guys back on, nobody will even do anything if I just start running a rotating subs bench like it's basketball@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'ímpact'
A very basic, and fundamental question he asked was: why couldn't the reserves come on before half time? Maybe you get 35 good minutes out of a prop? Why not do it in reverse?
I guess most people would say well what do you do if there's an injury just after half-time then?""
To which Rassie says Í'll just bring the other guys back on, nobody will even do anything if I just start running a rotating subs bench like it's basketballThey have been taking the piss with this carry on for years.
One of the locks in the second test came on and off 4 times if I recall correctly?
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
I remember our only complaint it was a bit boring around team naming , it picked itself
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2024:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
I remember our only complaint it was a bit boring around team naming , it picked itself
And one of those losses was when the whole team had a dose of the trots in Twickenham.
They were all on the jacks for the week.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
I post this not as a criticism of where we are at now, but as a reminder of how good we were through that era. What a team
That team would be one of the top 3 squads in AB history. Totally stacked, totally rooted our expectations
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan Alongside 96-97, 87-89, 65-69?
I was thinking of the Incomparables, I forgot about the post '87 team who were a total juggernaut. I have no opinion on the 60s team as it was before my time, but if that was the Needle's team I know they never lost? And probably the Invincibles would complete the list
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October 5 is the planned return for Roigard. He will link up with the ABs next week.
There is a video interview in the article.
