All Blacks 2024
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I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.
These are my guesses.
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Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.
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Some of our backs ain't fast enough.
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Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.
I'd welcome other suggestions.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.
These are my guesses.
-
Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.
-
Some of our backs ain't fast enough.
-
Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.
I'd welcome other suggestions.
Our backline attack has completely stagnated since having BB at 10.
I may seem obsessed with this notion since it's all I've posted recently..but it's infuriating to see something eventuate that seemed so obvious from the outside.
Beauden has never looked good against the rush. He has a horrible passing game, he doesn't run flat to draw in defenders and free the outside backs. He telegraphs his passes and shovels it on, it's just trash. And our attack greatly suffers.
Amazing how we were consistently getting around rush defense with Dmac at 10 (someone with an actual passing game), and it's suddenly disappeared again with BB back.
I'm just in disbelief he is still getting picked to start at 10.
Honestly he must be the most charming person on the planet off the field to keep getting picked.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.
These are my guesses.
-
Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.
-
Some of our backs ain't fast enough.
-
Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.
I'd welcome other suggestions.
Our backline attack has completely stagnated since having BB at 10.
I may seem obsessed with this notion since it's all I've posted recently..but it's infuriating to see something eventuate that seemed so obvious from the outside.
Beauden has never looked good against the rush. He has a horrible passing game, he doesn't run flat to draw in defenders and free the outside backs. He telegraphs his passes and shovels it on, it's just trash. And our attack greatly suffers.
Amazing how we were consistently getting around rush defense with Dmac at 10 (someone with an actual passing game), and it's suddenly disappeared again with BB back.
I'm just in disbelief he is still getting picked to start at 10.
Honestly he must be the most charming person on the planet off the field to keep getting picked.
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Interestingly I was talking to a mate about Razor, and he has a mate (haha yeah I know, mate of mate) with significant first hand experience of Razor in a professional capacity. He doesn't rate his vaunted coaching ability or his man management skills. It's one person's opinion of course, but it feels quite plausible based on this season's events. He had the whole buffet that is NZs top rugby talent to fuse into a quality team, and we got what we got, a pupu platter of inconsistency. I believe we can do better
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Interestingly I was talking to a mate about Razor, and he has a mate (haha yeah I know, mate of mate) with significant first hand experience of Razor in a professional capacity. He doesn't rate his vaunted coaching ability or his man management skills. It's one person's opinion of course, but it feels quite plausible based on this season's events. He had the whole buffet that is NZs top rugby talent to fuse into a quality team, and we got what we got, a pupu platter of inconsistency. I believe we can do better
His record is all that matters. Can’t be beaten. This first year at test level was ok but not great. 2nd year will be interesting.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
someone with an actual passing game
But BB has the best kick pass game in the country.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
someone with an actual passing game
But BB has the best kick pass game in the country.
Wouldn’t even say that - practices the most
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Interestingly I was talking to a mate about Razor, and he has a mate (haha yeah I know, mate of mate) with significant first hand experience of Razor in a professional capacity. He doesn't rate his vaunted coaching ability or his man management skills. It's one person's opinion of course, but it feels quite plausible based on this season's events. He had the whole buffet that is NZs top rugby talent to fuse into a quality team, and we got what we got, a pupu platter of inconsistency. I believe we can do better
His record is all that matters. Can’t be beaten. This first year at test level was ok but not great. 2nd year will be interesting.
@kev said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Interestingly I was talking to a mate about Razor, and he has a mate (haha yeah I know, mate of mate) with significant first hand experience of Razor in a professional capacity. He doesn't rate his vaunted coaching ability or his man management skills. It's one person's opinion of course, but it feels quite plausible based on this season's events. He had the whole buffet that is NZs top rugby talent to fuse into a quality team, and we got what we got, a pupu platter of inconsistency. I believe we can do better
His record is all that matters. Can’t be beaten. This first year at test level was ok but not great. 2nd year will be interesting.
Didn't you hear, apparently SR record doesn't count
. His record this year has been average.
So I agree next year is huge. We won't be complaining if he runs the table next year, or close. If he muddles along again, questions should be answered that his team trimmed , just like Fozzie -
I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.
These are my guesses.
-
Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.
-
Some of our backs ain't fast enough.
-
Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.
I'd welcome other suggestions.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024:
I am trying to work out what's gone so wrong with our backline.
These are my guesses.
-
Aging players are kept in the squad when once upon a time two bad performances would have led to the selectors hitting the ejector seat button.
-
Some of our backs ain't fast enough.
-
Our backs ain't spending enough time together on the training paddock working on combinations, attacking angles and the timing of passes.
I'd welcome other suggestions.
No 3 - I look at skill sets of players. Reiko just doesn’t execute consistently - his catch and pass % are too low. My perception is that it’s mostly around him that it breaks down. Tough position in today’s game with the rush D.
If you add BB kicking the ball away, most of our issues are in the backs.
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@kev said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Interestingly I was talking to a mate about Razor, and he has a mate (haha yeah I know, mate of mate) with significant first hand experience of Razor in a professional capacity. He doesn't rate his vaunted coaching ability or his man management skills. It's one person's opinion of course, but it feels quite plausible based on this season's events. He had the whole buffet that is NZs top rugby talent to fuse into a quality team, and we got what we got, a pupu platter of inconsistency. I believe we can do better
His record is all that matters. Can’t be beaten. This first year at test level was ok but not great. 2nd year will be interesting.
Didn't you hear, apparently SR record doesn't count
. His record this year has been average.
So I agree next year is huge. We won't be complaining if he runs the table next year, or close. If he muddles along again, questions should be answered that his team trimmed , just like Fozzie -
When is there going to be an announcement on Richie Mounga, the headlines keep coming up and it is hidden by a paywall?
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
When is there going to be an announcement on Richie Mounga, the headlines keep coming up and it is hidden by a paywall?
I saw something earlier - will see if I can dig it out. NZR apparently hoping he'll be back May next year to play for the ABs.
I am disappointed. Fuck it, I'm massively underwhelmed. If he's the answer to our Test malaise I'll eat my hat
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Or 2004 where we transformed the team in ONE EOYT by leaving behind Spencer/Marshall and a bunch of experienced MUST HAVE players.
And the next gen took over and dominated the world.
hmm interesting - this made me remember how Razor exited the AB's. He was the incumbent Mitch didn't take him on EOYT so he could get in great shape for next season as he'd have a heavy workload. Then he never got picked again. Suffice to say Mitch was never going to be on his xmas card list. (sauce: completely random convo with Razor in a lift somewhere in Paris back in my I was overseas days still remember how filthy he was).
wonder if that baggage is impacting his selection thinking..
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
(sauce: completely random convo with Razor in a lift somewhere in Paris back in my I was overseas days still remember how filthy he was)
That was 20 years ago
I remember you speaking to the rest of the group just after that.. you were surprised that he was so willing to shit on Mitchell to a random kiwi
Wasn't he pissed at Deans too?
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At least Paul clearly recognises that a likely outcome of Mo'unga coming back is Dmac going, and given the relationship between Toshiba and the Chiefs, Dmac would be their ideal replacement.
All in all, some interesting ideas in that article, but the glaring one to me, is that the sabbatical system was created for Carter.
Mo'unga is a Temu version, and the fact that NZR is bending over now to do this silly shit speaks to the clown show it has become.
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@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
(sauce: completely random convo with Razor in a lift somewhere in Paris back in my I was overseas days still remember how filthy he was)
That was 20 years ago
I remember you speaking to the rest of the group just after that.. you were surprised that he was so willing to shit on Mitchell to a random kiwi
Wasn't he pissed at Deans too?
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
(sauce: completely random convo with Razor in a lift somewhere in Paris back in my I was overseas days still remember how filthy he was)
That was 20 years ago
I remember you speaking to the rest of the group just after that.. you were surprised that he was so willing to shit on Mitchell to a random kiwi
Wasn't he pissed at Deans too?
dunno my memory ain't that good! just remember him raging about mitch.
had a 30 year uni reunion on the weekend - just a bunch of people looking at each other say yeh can kinda remember you but not really... so not just my memory that's gettin hazy!
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I’d back Razor to be across these issues and to be able to fix them.
The only thing stopping Razor I think is himself. Unlike Foster, he provably has the ability as a head coach, and success has followed him at all levels.
The key issue next year will be selection, because despite everything, I’d argue we outplayed everyone in every test (from a tactical standpoint) except for maybe the Boks, but even then it is splitting hairs.
The forwards I think is more about evolution than revolution.
We have got 6 good props, 2 very good hookers + a good young prospect in Bell and hopefully a returning Samasoni, so no issues in the front row.
Six locks have been in the squad this year, IMO, have to get Holland in the 23, but this is evolution rather than revolution.
Loose forwards, in Sititi, Savea, Lakai and Papalii, we have the makings of a great loose forward trio. I think long-term, we probably need a hulking blindside, but that could be Haig and Finau who have already been in the squad, with Sititi/Savea at 8.
Backline might be more about revolution though.
Halfback, we have Roigard, then open season. I hope they haven’t written off Fakatava, because he is the closest in play-style to Roigard, and in the absence of a world beating first five, playing off 9 is important. Ratima has some work to do, but should be retained… feel like Hotham is TJ mark two.
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
Midfield, J Barrett is by far and away our best 12. No coincidence we played our worst rugby this year when he was off the field. ALB is not a 12, so need to find good backup. Ioane had a good year, but next year we really need to test if Proctor can be even better - which we won’t know until we try. Havili and ALB should be swept out… Higgins, Tupaea and McLeod these ones to watch as squadies I think.
Outside Backs, need revolution here. Clarke had a good year, Jordan had a good year and Tele’a ended the year well, but feel like the rest is open season. To help control test matches, the second fullback model I think is needed. Jordan back to the wing, as he is always going to be the best fullback on the wing (Like B Smith) and let’s look at a couple of fullbacks. Love the obvious one already in the environment.
Room for some bolters, let’s see what Super Rugby brings, and I think we can really judge where this team is heading at the end of next year.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
(sauce: completely random convo with Razor in a lift somewhere in Paris back in my I was overseas days still remember how filthy he was)
That was 20 years ago
I remember you speaking to the rest of the group just after that.. you were surprised that he was so willing to shit on Mitchell to a random kiwi
Wasn't he pissed at Deans too?
dunno my memory ain't that good! just remember him raging about mitch.
had a 30 year uni reunion on the weekend - just a bunch of people looking at each other say yeh can kinda remember you but not really... so not just my memory that's gettin hazy!
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
dunno my memory ain't that good! just remember him raging about mitch.
I might be remembering wrong.. but I think he told Deans it was his last year in NZ and Deans thanked him for the heads up and said it wouldn't affect his AB chances
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I’d back Razor to be across these issues and to be able to fix them.
The only thing stopping Razor I think is himself. Unlike Foster, he provably has the ability as a head coach, and success has followed him at all levels.
The key issue next year will be selection, because despite everything, I’d argue we outplayed everyone in every test (from a tactical standpoint) except for maybe the Boks, but even then it is splitting hairs.
The forwards I think is more about evolution than revolution.
We have got 6 good props, 2 very good hookers + a good young prospect in Bell and hopefully a returning Samasoni, so no issues in the front row.
Six locks have been in the squad this year, IMO, have to get Holland in the 23, but this is evolution rather than revolution.
Loose forwards, in Sititi, Savea, Lakai and Papalii, we have the makings of a great loose forward trio. I think long-term, we probably need a hulking blindside, but that could be Haig and Finau who have already been in the squad, with Sititi/Savea at 8.
Backline might be more about revolution though.
Halfback, we have Roigard, then open season. I hope they haven’t written off Fakatava, because he is the closest in play-style to Roigard, and in the absence of a world beating first five, playing off 9 is important. Ratima has some work to do, but should be retained… feel like Hotham is TJ mark two.
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
Midfield, J Barrett is by far and away our best 12. No coincidence we played our worst rugby this year when he was off the field. ALB is not a 12, so need to find good backup. Ioane had a good year, but next year we really need to test if Proctor can be even better - which we won’t know until we try. Havili and ALB should be swept out… Higgins, Tupaea and McLeod these ones to watch as squadies I think.
Outside Backs, need revolution here. Clarke had a good year, Jordan had a good year and Tele’a ended the year well, but feel like the rest is open season. To help control test matches, the second fullback model I think is needed. Jordan back to the wing, as he is always going to be the best fullback on the wing (Like B Smith) and let’s look at a couple of fullbacks. Love the obvious one already in the environment.
Room for some bolters, let’s see what Super Rugby brings, and I think we can really judge where this team is heading at the end of next year.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
https://media.tenor.com/UqKMm5scSZgAAAAM/elissa-slater-spit-take.gif
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
https://media.tenor.com/UqKMm5scSZgAAAAM/elissa-slater-spit-take.gif
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
@gt12 i dont think youre wrong...but i also think RM is the first example of how carving up at super level doesnt directly translate to international
I'm also not sure Millar is the best example....but the idea of a more traditional 10, plug the corners when needed, distribute but also not afraid just to take it into contact (not shovel shit to avoid getting tackled) and have faith will just play of 9 the next phase....is attractive
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
https://media.tenor.com/UqKMm5scSZgAAAAM/elissa-slater-spit-take.gif
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
https://media.tenor.com/UqKMm5scSZgAAAAM/elissa-slater-spit-take.gif
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
Against slack arse SR defence, where no one really uses a rush defence. Not saying that he can't replicate at international level, but we need to drop the entire flat attacking line bullshit (again, again and again) to find out - DMac should go to Ireland
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I’d back Razor to be across these issues and to be able to fix them.
The only thing stopping Razor I think is himself. Unlike Foster, he provably has the ability as a head coach, and success has followed him at all levels.
The key issue next year will be selection, because despite everything, I’d argue we outplayed everyone in every test (from a tactical standpoint) except for maybe the Boks, but even then it is splitting hairs.
The forwards I think is more about evolution than revolution.
We have got 6 good props, 2 very good hookers + a good young prospect in Bell and hopefully a returning Samasoni, so no issues in the front row.
Six locks have been in the squad this year, IMO, have to get Holland in the 23, but this is evolution rather than revolution.
Loose forwards, in Sititi, Savea, Lakai and Papalii, we have the makings of a great loose forward trio. I think long-term, we probably need a hulking blindside, but that could be Haig and Finau who have already been in the squad, with Sititi/Savea at 8.
Backline might be more about revolution though.
Halfback, we have Roigard, then open season. I hope they haven’t written off Fakatava, because he is the closest in play-style to Roigard, and in the absence of a world beating first five, playing off 9 is important. Ratima has some work to do, but should be retained… feel like Hotham is TJ mark two.
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
Midfield, J Barrett is by far and away our best 12. No coincidence we played our worst rugby this year when he was off the field. ALB is not a 12, so need to find good backup. Ioane had a good year, but next year we really need to test if Proctor can be even better - which we won’t know until we try. Havili and ALB should be swept out… Higgins, Tupaea and McLeod these ones to watch as squadies I think.
Outside Backs, need revolution here. Clarke had a good year, Jordan had a good year and Tele’a ended the year well, but feel like the rest is open season. To help control test matches, the second fullback model I think is needed. Jordan back to the wing, as he is always going to be the best fullback on the wing (Like B Smith) and let’s look at a couple of fullbacks. Love the obvious one already in the environment.
Room for some bolters, let’s see what Super Rugby brings, and I think we can really judge where this team is heading at the end of next year.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
let’s see what Super Rugby brings
Why? Doesn't make a blind bit of difference to selection to the ABs
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
let’s see what Super Rugby brings
Why? Doesn't make a blind bit of difference to selection to the ABs
that entire post could have been made 12 months ago
and yet here we are, still wheeling out the 2023 All Blacks
