All Blacks 2024
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
@canefan thats the kind of heretical coaching ideas that wont be tolerated around here!
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@frugby Fakatava plays his own game, often to the detriment of his own team.
Our halfbacks will be just fine as long as the forwards provide some go-forward and quality ball at the ruck. Roigard had the same issues Ratima was criticised for in the previous tests, because he was harassed by the Italians.
A problem for me is that some of the current ABs won't necessarily be playing in that same position for their SR teams. Think Sititi at the Chiefs, BB at the Blues and maybe even Lakai at the Hurricanes. I've no idea where MP will play Savea. It probably won't matter to Robertson though.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby Fakatava plays his own game, often to the detriment of his own team.
Our halfbacks will be just fine as long as the forwards provide some go-forward and quality ball at the ruck. Roigard had the same issues Ratima was criticised for in the previous tests, because he was harassed by the Italians.
A problem for me is that some of the current ABs won't necessarily be playing in that same position for their SR teams. Think Sititi at the Chiefs, BB at the Blues and maybe even Lakai at the Hurricanes. I've no idea where MP will play Savea. It probably won't matter to Robertson though.
Without the explicit need for a fetcher, I would let Sititi play at no 8 moving forward and Ardie can refashion himself as a 7 again. Super teams won’t follow suit, of course.
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
reeks seems to have one job with AB's which is crash ball. He just aint that big ball carrier type though.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Not have a gameplan that not only asks him to crash ball, but to receive passes at the same time as he gets tackled. Fastest bloke on the team and that's the genius level coaching maximising player's strengths.
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Surely a simple use of Jordie and Rieko's talents is to have Jordie on the crash ball early on to suck in defenders, then later on throw the cut out to Rieko in a bit of space where he can get on the outside shoulder of the defender? Or am I just under thinking that and our genius coaches are playing 4D chess??
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
big ranging boot
absolute myth
Not a total myth, but it's not accurate enough to use as a genuine clearing option from phase play. More if we are stuck deep in our 22 and we want someone to just absolutely hoof it down field to relieve some pressure.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
reeks seems to have one job with AB's which is crash ball. He just aint that big ball carrier type though.
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
reeks seems to have one job with AB's which is crash ball. He just aint that big ball carrier type though.
Weird. He’s the greatest Rugby athlete ever according to some on here.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
reeks seems to have one job with AB's which is crash ball. He just aint that big ball carrier type though.
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
reeks seems to have one job with AB's which is crash ball. He just aint that big ball carrier type though.
He also has poor hands - especially with short balls close to the defensive line
So what do they do - constantly have him run onto short balls close to the line
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What would a hypothetical All Blacks side look like with offshore players? One thing not being discussed is the number of Kiwis in Aussie Super Rugby teams, even the Drua.
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
What would a hypothetical All Blacks side look like with offshore players? One thing not being discussed is the number of Kiwis in Aussie Super Rugby teams, even the Drua.
I'll start this list:
- Akira Ioane.
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one thing i feel ive noticed and i was never a back so might be wrong but we seem to be very flat footed, even if RI is just doing crash ball...surely its a lot harder if hes stationary or at most trotting....other teams do seem to attack with more speed
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@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
reeks seems to have one job with AB's which is crash ball. He just aint that big ball carrier type though.
He also has poor hands - especially with short balls close to the defensive line
So what do they do - constantly have him run onto short balls close to the line
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
So what do they do - constantly have him run onto short balls close to the line
Basically the same as last year too. JB was making slightly better decisions last year and the opposition defence has had even more time to counter it. Here's an article from early in the 2023 season
rugbypass.com/news/jordie-barrett-analysis/ -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
https://media.tenor.com/UqKMm5scSZgAAAAM/elissa-slater-spit-take.gif
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
I’m meaning as a pure squad option, he might be the beneficiary as last man standing. What Millar could possibly provide though, is game management and elite punting, which is where both Barrett and DMac have struggled this year.
McKenzie is a moments player, and he might well be the best we have got, but we won’t win a World Cup with him at 10. He is too hit and miss to get away with in tournament play IMO. He has thrived in the impact roll as has Barrett. Neither really grasped that starting 10 role, McKenzie was dropped after flattering to deceive in SA and Bledisloe One. The idea that he solves our issues is the Sotutu argument all over again.
The guy who isn’t playing isn’t always a better solution, sometimes the issue is there is no solution, and to me it is abundantly clear that we don’t have a 10 capable of running a game on his own, so there are three options.
A) Wait for the next guy to come along/pray Mo’unga finds a new gear
B) Continue with the inconsistency Barrett and DMac provide
C) Alter the gameplan to remove the burden from the 10. With Roigard at 9, and Barrett at 12 I think this is a legitimate option. France play a lot off Dupont with a limited 10 outside him, and the Boks have succeeded with a pack going well and Pollard running the basics. It is possible I think, that with everything run well around him, should he continue to take steps forward Millar, or a Cashmore or another first five in that mould could be a stop gap. With them begging Mo’unga back, and taking Jacomb with the NZ XV they clearly aren’t going to go this way though I don’t think.
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one thing i feel ive noticed and i was never a back so might be wrong but we seem to be very flat footed, even if RI is just doing crash ball...surely its a lot harder if hes stationary or at most trotting....other teams do seem to attack with more speed
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
one thing i feel ive noticed and i was never a back so might be wrong but we seem to be very flat footed, even if RI is just doing crash ball...surely its a lot harder if hes stationary or at most trotting....other teams do seem to attack with more speed
It's all part of the genius plan. See, attacking rugby is the ABs DNA, and taking the ball, flat at the line against hard rushing defence is the best way to show the kiwi way and our skill advantages. Even better, if you are standing still when you receive the ball, and there is no deception, which really helps showcasing the awesome kiwi-superiority-skill all-DNA-blacks way (TM). You've got to go wide at every opportunity too, look at the 2015 RWC, Wayne Smith says, and he should know. Finally, and obviously, the best players to show this great kiwi way of playing are those playing in overseas comps, where they are not at all involved in teams that use deception, depth, and boring non DNA grinding/technical rugby.
Fucking genius!
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
one thing i feel ive noticed and i was never a back so might be wrong but we seem to be very flat footed, even if RI is just doing crash ball...surely its a lot harder if hes stationary or at most trotting....other teams do seem to attack with more speed
It's all part of the genius plan. See, attacking rugby is the ABs DNA, and taking the ball, flat at the line against hard rushing defence is the best way to show the kiwi way and our skill advantages. Even better, if you are standing still when you receive the ball, and there is no deception, which really helps showcasing the awesome kiwi-superiority-skill all-DNA-blacks way (TM). You've got to go wide at every opportunity too, look at the 2015 RWC, Wayne Smith says, and he should know. Finally, and obviously, the best players to show this great kiwi way of playing are those playing in overseas comps, where they are not at all involved in teams that use deception, depth, and boring non DNA grinding/technical rugby.
Fucking genius!
@Machpants and everyone of them seems to not only get the ball standing still...but the do a little two step on the spot before getting folded
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@Machpants and everyone of them seems to not only get the ball standing still...but the do a little two step on the spot before getting folded
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants and everyone of them seems to not only get the ball standing still...but the do a little two step on the spot before getting folded
After the Irish had the wood over us, last few years, we also introduced some river dance to our DNA
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Not have a gameplan that not only asks him to crash ball, but to receive passes at the same time as he gets tackled. Fastest bloke on the team and that's the genius level coaching maximising player's strengths.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Not have a gameplan that not only asks him to crash ball, but to receive passes at the same time as he gets tackled. Fastest bloke on the team and that's the genius level coaching maximising player's strengths.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
i feel like the NZ rugby media is trying to gaslight me
Paul Cully did a World XV article today, and put the "consistently excellent" Ardie Savea in it. At openside. The fuck?
He also added Wallace Sititi, which in itself is not a terrible call, but at #8?Apparently Rob Valetini doesn't exist aye Paul?
i had a discussion with someone this week who insisted "everyone" knows BB has been consistently excellent this year.....i feel like im going insane
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
i feel like the NZ rugby media is trying to gaslight me
Paul Cully did a World XV article today, and put the "consistently excellent" Ardie Savea in it. At openside. The fuck?
He also added Wallace Sititi, which in itself is not a terrible call, but at #8?Apparently Rob Valetini doesn't exist aye Paul?
i had a discussion with someone this week who insisted "everyone" knows BB has been consistently excellent this year.....i feel like im going insane
further to this, i just saw a post on the International rugby facebook group, someone claiming razor had done well and was building for the future....and a series of replies talking about a young squad and great building and i feel like im going insane!
why not go for youth this year...why wait for next year? people seemto think it makes perfect sense....
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Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
Jordie has been underwhelming all year, I said it at the end of the Canes season. Don’t get me wrong Jordie has his moments but he’s not a playmaker and his decision making is horrible. He also has a long history of fluffing shit up when the pressure comes on.
I feel like Razor has the Barrett’s permanently penciled into his 15 and there’s no changing his mind, especially considering one of them is the captain. I’m happy to throw it out there, I’ don’t think any of them should be in our starting side atm and there’s a couple more names in that boat as well.
What could have been if we actually fking picked on form.
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.
I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
They're winning games against us with young players coming through.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
