Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s
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@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble Two young 1st fives due to start (essentially filling in for another young 10). Cru could've selected 3-4 1st fives in their squad and relegated two of those to the training field, but now Kemara and Reihana know they'll get game time. Possibly McCleod & Aumua (not young, but new to cru) in midfield. I'm biased, bc I don't rate Ennor or Havili there. Hotham at 9. This seems to be the season when they hand over the keys.
….so the crusaders ARE ALSO giving young promising guys a run…rather than the inept ones
Yeah, I just meant that the cru are giving opportunities to youngsters in DECISION-MAKING positions (9, 10, 12).
hastie is a 9, millar a 10 and faleafaga a 10/12......
@Kiwiwomble Fair enough. On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs and the odd midfielder from the Hurricanes? Those two teams way too stacked in those positions (with quality players looking at cameos at Super level instead of perhaps starring roles at the Highlanders).
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@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
@ACT-Crusader said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
I remember bridge on an eoyt game in Japan , (from memory there were 2 squads , he wasn’t part of the main group but he played in this game ) as a team we didn’t play particularly well , but he scored 2 or 3 long range tries and everyone went wow , why isn’t he a regular allblack ? And he was selected the next year .
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@Kiwiwomble Fair enough. On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs and the odd midfielder from the Hurricanes? Those two teams way too stacked in those positions (with quality players looking at cameos at Super level instead of perhaps starring roles at the Highlanders).
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble Fair enough. On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs and the odd midfielder from the Hurricanes? Those two teams way too stacked in those positions (with quality players looking at cameos at Super level instead of perhaps starring roles at the Highlanders).
People say this kind of thing all the time…how do we know they didn’t?
Players just might not want to come to the smallest of the five hubs and to the teams with one of if not the worst record
You can’t really buy your way to the top with salary caps and shit…and the one time we tried In 2013 we had our worst run in history
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@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Kiwiwomble Fair enough. On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs and the odd midfielder from the Hurricanes? Those two teams way too stacked in those positions (with quality players looking at cameos at Super level instead of perhaps starring roles at the Highlanders).
People say this kind of thing all the time…how do we know they didn’t?
Players just might not want to come to the smallest of the five hubs and to the teams with one of if not the worst record
You can’t really buy your way to the top with salary caps and shit…and the one time we tried In 2013 we had our worst run in history
@Kiwiwomble I hear you, but I wonder if their pitches were on point in terms of content. Not necessarily depending $$$ to lure, but on career prospects...
For example, in an attempt to recruit/poach a promising first five, I would definitely emphasize:
- The big picture: New AB coach. New WC cycle. Richie Mounga gone. If you're ever gonna give getting into the black jersey frame a shot, this is the year.
- But Super rugby game time is key. The Highlanders can all but guarantee a good dose of that, bc no AB incumbent in the Highlander 10 jersey (so, no automatic minus 5 starts for other 10s)
- The draw of partnering with Fakatava (one of the premier 9s - top 2 really) and establishing combinations with other newcomer backs such as Kneepkens.
- A mention of the forward pack (de Groot, Holland, Parkinson) couldn't have hurt.
But I get your point tho.
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@Kiwiwomble Fair enough. On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs and the odd midfielder from the Hurricanes? Those two teams way too stacked in those positions (with quality players looking at cameos at Super level instead of perhaps starring roles at the Highlanders).
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs
Both Gatland and Ioane left the Highlanders for the Chiefs, so that is hardly a great selling point if you are wanting a player to go in the other direction.
The only 1st 5s from the Chiefs region that the Highlanders could have made a play for are Jacomb and Hohepa. Kemara and Cashmore had already signed elsewhere, and Trask was in the Chiefs long-term plans. I don't see a problem in the Highlanders investing in their local talent in that position.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
I remember bridge on an eoyt game in Japan , (from memory there were 2 squads , he wasn’t part of the main group but he played in this game ) as a team we didn’t play particularly well , but he scored 2 or 3 long range tries and everyone went wow , why isn’t he a regular allblack ? And he was selected the next year .
@kiwiinmelb said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@ACT-Crusader said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
I remember bridge on an eoyt game in Japan , (from memory there were 2 squads , he wasn’t part of the main group but he played in this game ) as a team we didn’t play particularly well , but he scored 2 or 3 long range tries and everyone went wow , why isn’t he a regular allblack ? And he was selected the next year .
Bridge was an odd one for me, he was for a couple of years one of those players who wasn't spectacular athletically but always seemed to be in the right place at the right time - like Conrad Smith who could just read a game and get himself in the right position. I rated him and thought he deserved a crack at the AB's.
Then during the covid disruption when the AB's came back and it was like he had a brain transplant or something - he was just awful, hands like feet on attack, hopelessly out of position on defense. You had an unspectacular winger who had lost all their game sense and went from being "in the right place at the right time" to "a hopelessly lost headless chicken".
Then again Fozzie's preferred method of backline play did seem to be the headless chicken approach so maybe he just picked up on this style of play at a faster rate than the rest of his peers??
Sorry for the complete digression here but I've never seen someone do such a convincing job of playing themselves out of team.
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@Kiwiwomble I hear you, but I wonder if their pitches were on point in terms of content. Not necessarily depending $$$ to lure, but on career prospects...
For example, in an attempt to recruit/poach a promising first five, I would definitely emphasize:
- The big picture: New AB coach. New WC cycle. Richie Mounga gone. If you're ever gonna give getting into the black jersey frame a shot, this is the year.
- But Super rugby game time is key. The Highlanders can all but guarantee a good dose of that, bc no AB incumbent in the Highlander 10 jersey (so, no automatic minus 5 starts for other 10s)
- The draw of partnering with Fakatava (one of the premier 9s - top 2 really) and establishing combinations with other newcomer backs such as Kneepkens.
- A mention of the forward pack (de Groot, Holland, Parkinson) couldn't have hurt.
But I get your point tho.
@Punch_up how shit do you think the HIghlanders management is if you think they dont mentioned that kind of stuff when talking to new recruit?...thats all pretty basic stuff...in fact i would say the players and their management will already be aware of those things and when they talk to a team they will be asking about the style of rugby thats going to be played and load of other things that we cant see just from reading the squad list
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@Punch_up how shit do you think the HIghlanders management is if you think they dont mentioned that kind of stuff when talking to new recruit?...thats all pretty basic stuff...in fact i would say the players and their management will already be aware of those things and when they talk to a team they will be asking about the style of rugby thats going to be played and load of other things that we cant see just from reading the squad list
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@kiwiinmelb said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@ACT-Crusader said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up and for Bridge it did work for a short window! He was playing at a high level. The form and confidence took a hit but coaches were still giving him game time and the pressure and noise got louder.
I don’t think it had anything to to do with him being a Crusaders player per se, but more that they saw something when he was in a purple patch albeit a short period.
A lot of players have been given chances even when the noise has been louder and whilst the provincial card gets thrown around, I doubt it’s that. Unless you are Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans
I remember bridge on an eoyt game in Japan , (from memory there were 2 squads , he wasn’t part of the main group but he played in this game ) as a team we didn’t play particularly well , but he scored 2 or 3 long range tries and everyone went wow , why isn’t he a regular allblack ? And he was selected the next year .
Bridge was an odd one for me, he was for a couple of years one of those players who wasn't spectacular athletically but always seemed to be in the right place at the right time - like Conrad Smith who could just read a game and get himself in the right position. I rated him and thought he deserved a crack at the AB's.
Then during the covid disruption when the AB's came back and it was like he had a brain transplant or something - he was just awful, hands like feet on attack, hopelessly out of position on defense. You had an unspectacular winger who had lost all their game sense and went from being "in the right place at the right time" to "a hopelessly lost headless chicken".
Then again Fozzie's preferred method of backline play did seem to be the headless chicken approach so maybe he just picked up on this style of play at a faster rate than the rest of his peers??
Sorry for the complete digression here but I've never seen someone do such a convincing job of playing themselves out of team.
@Windows97 he scored a load of tries for the Crusaders, and was the most underwhelming winger doing it. When he was stinking up the field I pulled the highlights - he beat something like 2 or 3 players in total in his 12-14 tries in Super. It was a classic case of being on the end of the chain, in space, and just falling over the tryline.
Didn't help he was being selected ahead of Rieko (the coaches seemed to struggle to get him playing well, too)
anyway all behind us now thank god
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@Kiwiwomble Well, they must be doing something wrong, bc potential recruits would rather be 3rd or 4th in the pecking order for a position at the other NZ franchise than be a potential or even likely starter at the Highlanders.
@Punch_up ...and most people generally acknowledge that Dunners isn't as attractive place to base yourself for large parts of the year compared to the other major centres...especially combined with generally having a poorer squad
Thats why the current plan is to have a core of guys that are either from the region or have come through the academy, if we can close the gap on the other teams with a core like that...then higher profile signings might be able to be lured down just to put us over the top
none of this is really new or surprising
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@Windows97 he scored a load of tries for the Crusaders, and was the most underwhelming winger doing it. When he was stinking up the field I pulled the highlights - he beat something like 2 or 3 players in total in his 12-14 tries in Super. It was a classic case of being on the end of the chain, in space, and just falling over the tryline.
Didn't help he was being selected ahead of Rieko (the coaches seemed to struggle to get him playing well, too)
anyway all behind us now thank god
@nzzp EXACTLY THIS. Precisely what I noticed when he started and I couldn't figure out why he was starting for the Crusaders or the ABs. To this day, in the Top14 Bridge never beats defenders on the outside. He's just a guy who constantly cuts inside, takes contact, and recycles the ball. Never gains many meters.
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@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs
Both Gatland and Ioane left the Highlanders for the Chiefs, so that is hardly a great selling point if you are wanting a player to go in the other direction.
The only 1st 5s from the Chiefs region that the Highlanders could have made a play for are Jacomb and Hohepa. Kemara and Cashmore had already signed elsewhere, and Trask was in the Chiefs long-term plans. I don't see a problem in the Highlanders investing in their local talent in that position.
@Bovidae said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs
Both Gatland and Ioane left the Highlanders for the Chiefs, so that is hardly a great selling point if you are wanting a player to go in the other direction.
The only 1st 5s from the Chiefs region that the Highlanders could have made a play for are Jacomb and Hohepa. Kemara and Cashmore had already signed elsewhere, and Trask was in the Chiefs long-term plans. I don't see a problem in the Highlanders investing in their local talent in that position.
Hit the nail on the head here. High hopes for Millar and Faleafaga, so unless you could lure DMac back 'home', there is little point in getting a 10 from elsewhere, because there is a lack of good 10s in their prime in NZ outside of him.
@Bovidae said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs
Both Gatland and Ioane left the Highlanders for the Chiefs, so that is hardly a great selling point if you are wanting a player to go in the other direction.
The only 1st 5s from the Chiefs region that the Highlanders could have made a play for are Jacomb and Hohepa. Kemara and Cashmore had already signed elsewhere, and Trask was in the Chiefs long-term plans. I don't see a problem in the Highlanders investing in their local talent in that position.
As for midfielders etc. of course we would like to have found a top class one, but no point getting someone else's sloppy seconds, we might as well try and develop the next star.
@Kiwiwomble said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up how shit do you think the HIghlanders management is if you think they dont mentioned that kind of stuff when talking to new recruit?...thats all pretty basic stuff...in fact i would say the players and their management will already be aware of those things and when they talk to a team they will be asking about the style of rugby thats going to be played and load of other things that we cant see just from reading the squad list
My theory, and it is only a theory with no intel, Aaron Mauger is the root cause of nearly all of the problems the Highlanders had over the last World Cup cycle... poor recruitment, and I would guess a poor environment which made it tough to attract players. Brown tried to pick up the pieces in 2021, but I would guess the culture was so bad nobody wanted to come... takes time to repair things, there was simply few players realistically available in 22' and 23' hence sticking with a similar squad. Dermody has now swept the house, and at the very least I can guarantee there will be a good culture, and the fringe guys actually want to be in Dunedin playing for us, rather than guys like for example Fetuli Paea, who is only with us because he can't get a better deal elsewhere.
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@Bovidae said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs
Both Gatland and Ioane left the Highlanders for the Chiefs, so that is hardly a great selling point if you are wanting a player to go in the other direction.
The only 1st 5s from the Chiefs region that the Highlanders could have made a play for are Jacomb and Hohepa. Kemara and Cashmore had already signed elsewhere, and Trask was in the Chiefs long-term plans. I don't see a problem in the Highlanders investing in their local talent in that position.
Hit the nail on the head here. High hopes for Millar and Faleafaga, so unless you could lure DMac back 'home', there is little point in getting a 10 from elsewhere, because there is a lack of good 10s in their prime in NZ outside of him.
@Bovidae said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
On a related note, could the Highlanders not have made a bigger play for say 1 or 2 first-fives from the chiefs
Both Gatland and Ioane left the Highlanders for the Chiefs, so that is hardly a great selling point if you are wanting a player to go in the other direction.
The only 1st 5s from the Chiefs region that the Highlanders could have made a play for are Jacomb and Hohepa. Kemara and Cashmore had already signed elsewhere, and Trask was in the Chiefs long-term plans. I don't see a problem in the Highlanders investing in their local talent in that position.
As for midfielders etc. of course we would like to have found a top class one, but no point getting someone else's sloppy seconds, we might as well try and develop the next star.
@Kiwiwomble said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Punch_up how shit do you think the HIghlanders management is if you think they dont mentioned that kind of stuff when talking to new recruit?...thats all pretty basic stuff...in fact i would say the players and their management will already be aware of those things and when they talk to a team they will be asking about the style of rugby thats going to be played and load of other things that we cant see just from reading the squad list
My theory, and it is only a theory with no intel, Aaron Mauger is the root cause of nearly all of the problems the Highlanders had over the last World Cup cycle... poor recruitment, and I would guess a poor environment which made it tough to attract players. Brown tried to pick up the pieces in 2021, but I would guess the culture was so bad nobody wanted to come... takes time to repair things, there was simply few players realistically available in 22' and 23' hence sticking with a similar squad. Dermody has now swept the house, and at the very least I can guarantee there will be a good culture, and the fringe guys actually want to be in Dunedin playing for us, rather than guys like for example Fetuli Paea, who is only with us because he can't get a better deal elsewhere.
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@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
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@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
@canefan said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
Just fucking stop it, or at least put in a trigger warning with spoiler blocks
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@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
@canefan said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
:angry_face:
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@canefan said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
:angry_face:
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@canefan said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
:angry_face:
The joke was on us Canes fans...
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@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@canefan said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
:angry_face:
The joke was on us Canes fans...
@canefan said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@canefan said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@Nepia said in Opinions on possible back-up All Blacks 10s:
@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
:angry_face:
The joke was on us Canes fans...
Well, for my past sins, I was Canes fan then, not sure why, I think our quota was -3 back then compared with the 3 we have now.
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@frugby Mauger is a worse selector and coach than he was a defender in his playing days.
Unsure how he managed to get two Super gigs aside from the boys club/promote every ex Cantab player as a coach.
@Nepia My theory is that as a byproduct of the cru's emphasis on on-field player decision-making over the last 20+ years a lot of Crusaders players who were just okay to good players have all been painted with the same "steady & sensible" brush and ppl believe (sometimes very wrongly) that the "steady & sensible" label would also translate to coaching.
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What's dagg up to? Surely it's his time to shine at ten.
