All Blacks vs Argentina I
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@sparky said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Kirwan Nail hit on head.
All we can hope is that Robertson has now learned the hard way that Test Rugby coaching is about a lot more than bigging up your pals.
The biggest issues is hes appointed his limited mates as his assistant coaches. The only good outcome of this was the Blues and Canes ended up with far superior coaches. And its early for Wellington but maybe Wellington too.
And then let them makes selections. Resulting in a terrible selected side especially for this test. My view this was one of the worst selected sides I can remember. They only got 2 starting backs right (DMac and Jordie). And even maybe Jordie was not right with ALB and Proctor deserving another chnace to show what they can do after there impressive pervious performance
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Kirwan Nail hit on head.
All we can hope is that Robertson has now learned the hard way that Test Rugby coaching is about a lot more than bigging up your pals.
The biggest issues is hes appointed his limited mates as his assistant coaches. The only good outcome of this was the Blues and Canes ended up with far superior coaches. And its early for Wellington but maybe Wellington too.
And then let them makes selections. Resulting in a terrible selected side especially for this test. My view this was one of the worst selected sides I can remember. They only got 2 starting backs right (DMac and Jordie). And even maybe Jordie was not right with ALB and Proctor deserving another chnace to show what they can do after there impressive pervious performance
Didn’t Tony Brown turn him down? And Schmidt didn’t want to work with him either
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@sparky said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Kirwan Nail hit on head.
All we can hope is that Robertson has now learned the hard way that Test Rugby coaching is about a lot more than bigging up your pals.
The biggest issues is hes appointed his limited mates as his assistant coaches. The only good outcome of this was the Blues and Canes ended up with far superior coaches. And its early for Wellington but maybe Wellington too.
And then let them makes selections. Resulting in a terrible selected side especially for this test. My view this was one of the worst selected sides I can remember. They only got 2 starting backs right (DMac and Jordie). And even maybe Jordie was not right with ALB and Proctor deserving another chnace to show what they can do after there impressive pervious performance
@Winger I agree and I said so a few days ago that this was one of the worst All Blacks starting XVs that I could remember.
But the problems were more than that. The pattern and the execution, especially in the last 20 minutes, were horrible.
My reaction is still "what the fuck was that?"
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Has anyone been TSF MOTM in their first run on start for the All Blacks
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Well, the good thing about all this is it will make the next side naming absolutely compelling.
I think quite a few heads will roll after this effort
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I think quite a few heads will roll after this effort
And if things are fixed and fast, it will be a very short AB coaching tenure for Mr Robertson and his pals.
NZR still have Fozzie, Vern, Dave Rennie and Jamie Joseph's numbers.
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@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Aumua took a great time to throw so badly
No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.
Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.
Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.
Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.
No. One. Jumped.
What every line out
Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?
All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.
Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Aumua took a great time to throw so badly
No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.
Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.
Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.
Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.
No. One. Jumped.
What every line out
Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?
All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.
Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.
He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless. -
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I think quite a few heads will roll after this effort
And if things are fixed and fast, it will be a very short AB coaching tenure for Mr Robertson and his pals.
NZR still have Fozzie, Vern, Dave Rennie and Jamie Joseph's numbers.
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I think quite a few heads will roll after this effort
And if things are fixed and fast, it will be a very short AB coaching tenure for Mr Robertson and his pals.
NZR still have Fozzie, Vern, Dave Rennie and Jamie Joseph's numbers.
Nah, NZR have never fired a head coach that I can remember. We are stuck with this lot for the cycle.
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Pathetic performance from the All Blacks, with Darry being the notable exception. The forwards are toothless, TJP, JB and Reece were ineffective. The All Blacks need a few ball carriers up front. I'd like to see Williams and Tosi on the bench for the next game.
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Some of these player ratings are rather generous IMHO: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350374275/all-blacks-player-ratings-no-10-damian-mckenzies-costly-error-sums-sides-glaring
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Some of these player ratings are rather generous IMHO: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350374275/all-blacks-player-ratings-no-10-damian-mckenzies-costly-error-sums-sides-glaring
So everyone passed except Jordie.
How did they lose then ?
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Gracias chicos!
You have to give some credit to a gutsy Argentina. They took the opportunities that were given to them…on a platter mostly.
My sense is the ABs did what they are often are guilty of these days - not respecting the opposition, not respecting the ball, sacrificing structure and discipline for helter-skelter rugby, lacking pragmatism about taking three points when they are on offer, and playing loosey-goosey Super Rugby in the test arena.
Who do we blame for all that? There seems to be a lack of hard-heads in the coaching box and in the on-field leadership. For all his individual gifts, Savea is not a good skipper and seeks to win the game all on his own.
The ABs were 20-8 up at one stage and looked to be a try away from pulling away out of sight, but they let the Argentinians back in with sloppy, ultra-loose play that betrayed the old ‘we’re the Harlem Globetrotters of World Rugby and we can score more tries than you’ mentality.
Then when the pressure came on in the final quarter, they fell apart mentally. Loose and panicky passes, often with little pressure, wayward lineout throws, poor option-taking, and on it went. Same old car crash.
I don’t think Robertson is a bad coach, but I do wonder at the quality of his assistants and whether there are too many of them. It all seems too pally and collegiate. MacDonald has never impressed me, and I wonder what Hansen brings to the party.
In what was a familiar scenario, the whole AB game had a Marie Celeste element to it. There was a sense of nobody being at the wheel and you could see them drifting inexorably toward the rocks in slow motion. Yet the ABs thrashed Argentina in the WC semi-final and it’s tough to believe they suddenly became that bad, and Argentina that good in less than a year.
So it looks and smells like an attitude problem, a lack of leadership problem, an absence of test rugby pragmatism, and the old familiar trap of elevating the desire to put on a spectacle above the requirement to win the game.
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Gracias chicos!
You have to give some credit to a gutsy Argentina. They took the opportunities that were given to them…on a platter mostly.
My sense is the ABs did what they are often are guilty of these days - not respecting the opposition, not respecting the ball, sacrificing structure and discipline for helter-skelter rugby, lacking pragmatism about taking three points when they are on offer, and playing loosey-goosey Super Rugby in the test arena.
Who do we blame for all that? There seems to be a lack of hard-heads in the coaching box and in the on-field leadership. For all his individual gifts, Savea is not a good skipper and seeks to win the game all on his own.
The ABs were 20-8 up at one stage and looked to be a try away from pulling away out of sight, but they let the Argentinians back in with sloppy, ultra-loose play that betrayed the old ‘we’re the Harlem Globetrotters of World Rugby and we can score more tries than you’ mentality.
Then when the pressure came on in the final quarter, they fell apart mentally. Loose and panicky passes, often with little pressure, wayward lineout throws, poor option-taking, and on it went. Same old car crash.
I don’t think Robertson is a bad coach, but I do wonder at the quality of his assistants and whether there are too many of them. It all seems too pally and collegiate. MacDonald has never impressed me, and I wonder what Hansen brings to the party.
In what was a familiar scenario, the whole AB game had a Marie Celeste element to it. There was a sense of nobody being at the wheel and you could see them drifting inexorably toward the rocks in slow motion. Yet the ABs thrashed Argentina in the WC semi-final and it’s tough to believe they suddenly became that bad, and Argentina that good in less than a year.
So it looks and smells like an attitude problem, a lack of leadership problem, an absence of test rugby pragmatism, and the old familiar trap of elevating the desire to put on a spectacle above the requirement to win the game.
@His-Bobness Vintage HB.
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Gracias chicos!
You have to give some credit to a gutsy Argentina. They took the opportunities that were given to them…on a platter mostly.
My sense is the ABs did what they are often are guilty of these days - not respecting the opposition, not respecting the ball, sacrificing structure and discipline for helter-skelter rugby, lacking pragmatism about taking three points when they are on offer, and playing loosey-goosey Super Rugby in the test arena.
Who do we blame for all that? There seems to be a lack of hard-heads in the coaching box and in the on-field leadership. For all his individual gifts, Savea is not a good skipper and seeks to win the game all on his own.
The ABs were 20-8 up at one stage and looked to be a try away from pulling away out of sight, but they let the Argentinians back in with sloppy, ultra-loose play that betrayed the old ‘we’re the Harlem Globetrotters of World Rugby and we can score more tries than you’ mentality.
Then when the pressure came on in the final quarter, they fell apart mentally. Loose and panicky passes, often with little pressure, wayward lineout throws, poor option-taking, and on it went. Same old car crash.
I don’t think Robertson is a bad coach, but I do wonder at the quality of his assistants and whether there are too many of them. It all seems too pally and collegiate. MacDonald has never impressed me, and I wonder what Hansen brings to the party.
In what was a familiar scenario, the whole AB game had a Marie Celeste element to it. There was a sense of nobody being at the wheel and you could see them drifting inexorably toward the rocks in slow motion. Yet the ABs thrashed Argentina in the WC semi-final and it’s tough to believe they suddenly became that bad, and Argentina that good in less than a year.
So it looks and smells like an attitude problem, a lack of leadership problem, an absence of test rugby pragmatism, and the old familiar trap of elevating the desire to put on a spectacle above the requirement to win the game.
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@His-Bobness in a recent interview, didn't Razor say we were in the entertainment business (or something to that effect)?
@canefan Yes, I also think this is what happens when you sell a ‘brand’ to private equity. His real bosses are the big money people sitting in New York with no emotional investment in the game and everything hanging on the need to make a quick profit.
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Matera and Creevy led. Even led Angus at the end
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Aumua took a great time to throw so badly
No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.
Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.
Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.
Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.
No. One. Jumped.
What every line out
Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?
All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.
Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.
He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless.@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Aumua took a great time to throw so badly
No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.
Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.
Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.
Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.
No. One. Jumped.
What every line out
Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?
All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.
Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.
He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless.Drop Taylor and Blackadder aswell. No effect at all. Blackadder flying back like that as our enforcer and then missing a one on one tackle under our posts was just embarrassing. Taylor shouldn’t have been starting tonight, he was garbage in the first two tests. Maybe starting Aumua would have given him more confidence instead of throwing him in last minute when we were already under the pump.
Again, it falls on Razor with shit selections and shit tactics.
He chose not to select the form Super players like Sotutu, Love, Lakai, Ioane etc so he can fall on the sword when it all turns to shit for all I care.
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Not sure about DMac at 10. He has flashes of brilliance, but his game management never holds up.
Our game turns into a version of him. It's an unstructured game of touch rugby that doesn’t work against a good test-level organised defence.
Hello @His-Bobness. I had beers with you Phooey and MVJ at the "London" nigh on 20 years ago. Glad to see you've still got the great insights to the game.
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I wonder if we are missing mental skills guru Gilbert Enoka more than we realised we would.
Yes, we were physically overpowered but we froze at the end too. Execution of basic, controlled skills went to shit. Something really not right.
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Not sure about DMac at 10. He has flashes of brilliance, but his game management never holds up.
Our game turns into a version of him. It's an unstructured game of touch rugby that doesn’t work against a good test-level organised defence.
Hello @His-Bobness. I had beers with you Phooey and MVJ at the "London" nigh on 20 years ago. Glad to see you've still got the great insights to the game.
@Regex I remember that night!
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@canefan Yes, I also think this is what happens when you sell a ‘brand’ to private equity. His real bosses are the big money people sitting in New York with no emotional investment in the game and everything hanging on the need to make a quick profit.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan Yes, I also think this is what happens when you sell a ‘brand’ to private equity. His real bosses are the big money people sitting in New York with no emotional investment in the game and everything hanging on the need to make a quick profit.
He also made comments aimed at other countries like SA, basically saying they needed to be more entertaining as well. I think he's missed the point about winning being pretty important
