All Blacks 2025
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Darren said in All Blacks 2025:
DMac offers something different, some excitement at 10, which so far Razor doesn't seem to like his players having.
I dunno. I often get so excited when BB is at 10, I end up throwing things at the TV
Stop. It. With. The. Fucking. Kicking!
Yes, I know it barely makes sense, but that's what's normally frothing out when beaudy kicks away possession again, with some stupid chip or attempt at kick pass.
He is a true connoisseur of both the aimless kick and the low percentage kick. Not to mention the Sexton slow shovel it along.
It was actually a pleasant change to see him being rubbished for taking a poor option to run it back last week.
Decent fullback, crap 10. Since forever.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Darren said in All Blacks 2025:
DMac offers something different, some excitement at 10, which so far Razor doesn't seem to like his players having.
I dunno. I often get so excited when BB is at 10, I end up throwing things at the TV
Stop. It. With. The. Fucking. Kicking!
Yes, I know it barely makes sense, but that's what's normally frothing out when beaudy kicks away possession again, with some stupid chip or attempt at kick pass.
He is a true connoisseur of both the aimless kick and the low percentage kick. Not to mention the Sexton slow shovel it along.
It was actually a pleasant change to see him being rubbished for taking a poor option to run it back last week.
Decent fullback, crap 10. Since forever.Was he? It seems like was all deflected to Ioane who ran back to help out, secured loose ball, and dropped it while trying to pass with a defender on him. It was also his fault that the Blues scrum gave away a penalty.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
I know. All they’ve managed to do is help win a couple of world cups back to back. Hopeless
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
Good analysis.
Players such as DeAllende won't have improved since then, and their team's struggles were really their fault. I'm sure that they can't have developed to be a cornerstone of a settled WC winning side, maybe even getting selected for the World Rugby dream team last year.
Similarly, we've never had a 12 who had a range of workons, played on some average teams, but somehow managed to get in the conversation as the greatest 12 we've ever had.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
Post of the year, talking about super rugby from 5 years ago in the ABs 2025 thread.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
No I think it’s just our luck with injuries this year mate. Jordie actually didn’t play to his best last year either. If you look at who was in that starting Canes backline last year we no longer have Barrett, Rayasi, Moorby and Perenara, Cameron is still injured and we’ve only just got Proctor and Higgins back. The Canes have been running with an almost B-grade backline this year so it’s always going to be tough to compete week in and week out.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
No I think it’s just our luck with injuries this year mate. Jordie actually didn’t play to his best last year either. If you look at who was in that starting Canes backline last year we no longer have Barrett, Rayasi, Moorby and Perenara, Cameron is still injured and we’ve only just got Proctor and Higgins back. The Canes have been running with an almost B-grade backline this year so it’s always going to be tough to compete week in and week out.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
No I think it’s just our luck with injuries this year mate. Jordie actually didn’t play to his best last year either. If you look at who was in that starting Canes backline last year we no longer have Barrett, Rayasi, Moorby and Perenara, Cameron is still injured and we’ve only just got Proctor and Higgins back. The Canes have been running with an almost B-grade backline this year so it’s always going to be tough to compete week in and week out.
And a B grade pack during the early stages
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... and forwards the height of dwarf mondo grass ...
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Darren said in All Blacks 2025:
DMac offers something different, some excitement at 10, which so far Razor doesn't seem to like his players having.
I dunno. I often get so excited when BB is at 10, I end up throwing things at the TV
Stop. It. With. The. Fucking. Kicking!
Yes, I know it barely makes sense, but that's what's normally frothing out when beaudy kicks away possession again, with some stupid chip or attempt at kick pass.
He is a true connoisseur of both the aimless kick and the low percentage kick. Not to mention the Sexton slow shovel it along.
It was actually a pleasant change to see him being rubbished for taking a poor option to run it back last week.
Decent fullback, crap 10. Since forever.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Darren said in All Blacks 2025:
DMac offers something different, some excitement at 10, which so far Razor doesn't seem to like his players having.
I dunno. I often get so excited when BB is at 10, I end up throwing things at the TV
Stop. It. With. The. Fucking. Kicking!
Yes, I know it barely makes sense, but that's what's normally frothing out when beaudy kicks away possession again, with some stupid chip or attempt at kick pass.
He is a true connoisseur of both the aimless kick and the low percentage kick. Not to mention the Sexton slow shovel it along.
It was actually a pleasant change to see him being rubbished for taking a poor option to run it back last week.
Decent fullback, crap 10. Since forever.He was decent at 10 circa 2016 when he had his peak pace.
He couldnt run a game to save his life, but you also couldnt NOT play him there. The ball was just bouncing his way every time.The try he scored off first phase ball from a scrum in Dublin was ridiculous...(the one where Sexton coat hanger-ed him in the in goal area)....Freakish.
You just dont see people doing that these days.
Now the legs are gone.
It reminds me of Ronaldo and Messi.
Messi (Dan Carter) at walking pace is still one of the best players in the world. Ronaldo (Barrett) isnt.
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To not pick DMac as starting first five is plain silly.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
Post of the year, talking about super rugby from 5 years ago in the ABs 2025 thread.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
Post of the year, talking about super rugby from 5 years ago in the ABs 2025 thread.
If we judged Ma'a Nonu purely on Super form he'd be a journeyman.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm not going to criticize the coaches for playing Sititi at 6 because he actually did bloody well there.
I'll be upset if they bring back DH, though. Does some good things at Super level but at international level he either isn't a quality long-term 12 against top sides or they haven't used him properly. It is not like they don't have other 12s to try out.I agree, Havili doesn't have the size or style for international footy. We need a 12 that can consistently get us over the advantage line against top teams. This is exactly why I think Lam would go well as an international 12 for us, he has the acceleration and power to burst through tackles, but he also has the silky skills to put others away if required.
Yeah but he has amazing utility value
The difference when Jordie took over was dramatic. Just a bigger body who could get us moving forward. He hasn't kicked on, which is probably as much to do with tactics as anything
He’s big without being massive and doesn’t have the raw power of De Allende, Esterhuizen, Aki etc.
Good skills, good goal kicker.
A definite step up from Havilli but found wanting when compared to our last long term 12 ( as everyone is to be fair )
Nonu is in the GOAT conversation. In fact half the team probably is, for their positions. We were so spoiled by the 2012-2017 team
When you go through that 2015 WC Final team, we had so many players who were arguably the best we'd ever seen in those jerseys from a NZ perspective. Rettalick, Whitelock, McCaw, Kaino, Read, Smith, Smith, Smith, Carter, Nonu, Coles, prime Savea and Milner-Skudder, with the likes of prime Beaudy and SBW on the bench. That team was the best WC team ever assembled in my view and it's unlikely we'll see anything like it ever again.
The ABs haven't reached anywhere near that quality of side since, infact I'd go far as to say if the 2015 side met the side of 2025, they'd put 50+ on them with absolute ease.
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
No he is not eligible until after he's played in the NPC
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
What's Tangitau's D like? Genuine question.
Perhaps given you've got to be reasonable in 7s maybe ok?
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
Clarke is 10 times the player Leicester has ever been, and should be a lock for the #11 jumper. Leicester's stocks appear to have risen dramatically given his only performance in black has been an error ridden poor one. Great to have players returning to NZ but I really don't see Leicester as a solution to any of our backline problems. Inconsistent is the word that springs to mind with him.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
Clarke is 10 times the player Leicester has ever been, and should be a lock for the #11 jumper. Leicester's stocks appear to have risen dramatically given his only performance in black has been an error ridden poor one. Great to have players returning to NZ but I really don't see Leicester as a solution to any of our backline problems. Inconsistent is the word that springs to mind with him.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
Clarke is 10 times the player Leicester has ever been, and should be a lock for the #11 jumper. Leicester's stocks appear to have risen dramatically given his only performance in black has been an error ridden poor one. Great to have players returning to NZ but I really don't see Leicester as a solution to any of our backline problems. Inconsistent is the word that springs to mind with him.
Yeah definite Charlie Ngatai syndrome with him. He hasn’t exactly been missed with CC, Jordan, Telea and even Reece doing the job.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
Clarke is 10 times the player Leicester has ever been, and should be a lock for the #11 jumper. Leicester's stocks appear to have risen dramatically given his only performance in black has been an error ridden poor one. Great to have players returning to NZ but I really don't see Leicester as a solution to any of our backline problems. Inconsistent is the word that springs to mind with him.
Yeah definite Charlie Ngatai syndrome with him. He hasn’t exactly been missed with CC, Jordan, Telea and even Reece doing the job.
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I wouldn't call LF inconsistent, at least I don't remember him that way. I do remember him being a bit slow for a winger, and not being the best passer when playing in the midfield. Unless he has improved his passing game a great deal, I don't see him adding too much at AB level.
Will be handy for the Saders though.
