All Blacks 2025
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Playing their part to weaken the Blues
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Playing their part to weaken the Blues
Mate, I swear this is the underlining factor.
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i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
I suspect this is true. But it could also be true for Savea and Sotutu.
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Yeah maybe short term, but you have to weigh up the learnings Wallace could receive from either of them. And Savea won't play forever.
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i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
i realise we are all shouting opinions in to the wind, and nothing we say has any basis in reality. So here is mine:
I don't think you can play Savea and Sititi in the same starting loose trio and hope to be effective at the top end of test rugby.
Yeah, I have a bit of a sinking feeling about that too. Our big brutes at 6 - which is what you need when you have a small-ish dynamic 8 - just don't seem quite of the necessary standard yet. But (assuming Sititi gets back to last year's form) you gotta try to find a way don't you? These are our guys who can do things others just can't at the top level - in your own words 'move the needle'.
If we start both Savea and Sititi, then Sotutu or Finau would improve the lineout at least. One provides a big body in close, the other a big body out wide - so I'd lean towards giving Hoskins a go as the others are most effective wider. They won't though.If we don't start Savea and Sititi then making Savea the 'captain' of our (ugh) bomb squad is one option, which gives us a leader and highly impactful player coming on - he makes big plays when it matters, so him being fresh in the last 20 would be huge given our shit record in that part of the game last year. But, I don't see us having a top class 7 other than Savea. Kirifi maybe, but him + Sititi isn't much better - he hits more rucks, but he's small. All the other guys: Dalton, Blackadder, Jacobson - very good players - but for me are small 6s in terms of output. They aren't great over the ball, they aren't great support runners, they shouldn't really be starting at 7 - and they all play so differently to Savea that your whole pattern changes for half a game. Despite the upside, I don't think it really works....
So, then Sititi becomes the bench loosie? With who to start:
Savea back to 8, with Dalton at 7 and Finau at 6? That just seems like a bit of a throwback to Cane/Savea/Frizzell which was never that great.
Or Savea to 7, Blackadder/Jacobson to 6, and who to 8... Parker? Lio-Willie? Sotutu? Not super-inspiring. -
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
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The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Think it was similar when we lost the first test to South Africa last year with him?
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The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
He's undoubtedly got all the physical attributes, but he needs to fix his decision making. You can't go giving away multiple penalties under pressure like that.
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So, then Sititi becomes the bench loosie? With who to start:
Savea back to 8, with Dalton at 7 and Finau at 6?That was the trio that started the first two tests of the season last year - which might be something of an indicator of how Razor really wants to balance his loose forwards - or it might have been that (I think) Cane and Blackadder were injured.
In any case, Finau wasn't impressive. But do they try him again and hope he'll be better this year? Or switch in Parker as an alternative big body?
It's a really hard season to pick the loosies, because we knoiw Ardie's going to be picked, but we don't know whether as a 7 or 8. And we can be pretty much certain Sititi is going to be picked, but not whether he'll be deployed at 6 or 8.
I'm inclined to think they'll pick 2x6s, 2x7s, 2x8s plus a utility guy like Jacobson.
I don't think they'll pick a whole bunch of ball-running guys who predominatly play number 8 (or play like 8s) i.e. not all of Savea, Sititi, Sotutu, Lio-Willie, Jacobson, Lakai.
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I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
He's undoubtedly got all the physical attributes, but he needs to fix his decision making. You can't go giving away multiple penalties under pressure like that.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
The problem with Finau was his last 10mins against the Blues. That's a bunting of red flags for tight Tests.
Pretty good try saving tackle on Clarke.
He's undoubtedly got all the physical attributes, but he needs to fix his decision making. You can't go giving away multiple penalties under pressure like that.
Chiefs lost 3 second rowers and Finau had to play 80. I thought he was very effective indeed in first 60 mins. Then did trysaver tackle and goalline defence after he would have been subbed. It was ENS for one of those penalties too, not Finau. So I think the comments are a bit harsh.
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I mean all of our issues with the balance of the loosies is because the coaches didn't want Akira, despite being a super talented big body with AB experience and in career best form. Their personal beef with Akira is really, really hurting them now.
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
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@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
That didn't stop them trying to get Frizell back or picking Cane. Clearly they weren't interested in Akira.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
The reasons given for Sotutu were frankly rubbish. Ryan just didn't like him and I also suspect there was an element of bias due to the past losses against the Crusaders in finals.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
The reasons given for Sotutu were frankly rubbish. Ryan just didn't like him and I also suspect there was an element of bias due to the past losses against the Crusaders in finals.
That's even stupider, he was a machine in the 2023 (I think) final. The Blues loosies kept them in the game in that match.
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@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
Razor and Tubby love selecting players in Japan in the media.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
The reasons given for Sotutu were frankly rubbish. Ryan just didn't like him and I also suspect there was an element of bias due to the past losses against the Crusaders in finals.
That's even stupider, he was a machine in the 2023 (I think) final. The Blues loosies kept them in the game in that match.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
Justin Marshall believes Sotutu and Papaili's AB ship has sailed, in no small part because the Blues style of play is not the way that Razor wants his All blacks to play. If true, this makes me unhappy. Here I was thinking it was the job of the coach to pick players and mold them to play the style he wanted.....
Just in spouts a lot of piffle about various Crusaders, and those competing for same places. Sotutu was criticised last year for not being physical enough on defence and for shirking hard carries. He seems to have remedied that this year. Skill set still wider than other NZ 8s.
The reasons given for Sotutu were frankly rubbish. Ryan just didn't like him and I also suspect there was an element of bias due to the past losses against the Crusaders in finals.
That's even stupider, he was a machine in the 2023 (I think) final. The Blues loosies kept them in the game in that match.
Yup 2022 final. The loosies did play well that day.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
Razor and Tubby love selecting players in Japan in the media.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
Razor and Tubby love selecting players in Japan in the media.
Yep, pencil in 6 Frizzell 8 Ioane 10 Mounga for the first French test. You heard it here first.
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It's 2025 and people are still claiming Akira Ioane is the saviour for the ABs. A very good Super Rugby player, who never quite kicked on. As the dedicated thread showed, none of the guys we have used since Kaino have consistently done it.
Picking this ABs pack is far from straight forward, because you are balancing impact out of your front row, with the fact your two best locks are short by international standard, with the fact your two best loosies are both best when left to roam loosely.
IMO, nevermind Sititi and Savea being balanced, Barrett, Vaa'i, Sititi & Savea is extraordinarily undersized regardless of who you pair with it. The lineout will get screwed, and what you make-up for in x-factor, you lose proper grunt that allows you to use the x-factor.
You could make a serious argument that his work-rate and height means Holland should start. I won't pretend I am not biased, but picking Holland over Patty T shouldn't even be a consideration. That pack desperately lacks height.
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@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
After getting the quiet word he wasn't in the AB plans.....
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
That didn't stop them trying to get Frizell back or picking Cane. Clearly they weren't interested in Akira.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter He'd signed in Japan!
That didn't stop them trying to get Frizell back or picking Cane. Clearly they weren't interested in Akira.
They did not pick Frizell.
I can see a slight difference between Sam and Akira. What do you think it might be?
