All Blacks 2025
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Where’s Rangi?
@ACT-Crusader just getting his feet under the desk as Yokohama coach.
I’d be investigating Tyler Bleyendaal. Switched on guy, just gone back to Leinster a year ago.
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Where’s Rangi?
@ACT-Crusader probably be next CEO of NZR anything possible
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I don't care anymore. Two years of the media blowing Razor, culminating in our worst loss ever. No discernible progress and a seeming drop in our core skills. The problem with the team is much like NZ itself, woke and insular with a distinct lack of brainpower and mongrel in the coaching group, players and even media. It's a giant PR exercise with everyone sucking each other off.
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't care anymore. Two years of the media blowing Razor, culminating in our worst loss ever. No discernible progress and a seeming drop in our core skills. The problem with the team is much like NZ itself, woke and insular with a distinct lack of brainpower and mongrel in the coaching group, players and even media. It's a giant PR exercise with everyone sucking each other off.
Seems you on wrong site if you hate NZ that much mate.
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An interesting article by a idiot Mark Reason in stuff,But it is scary when I agree with a lot of what he said.
some quotes
"But on September 13, 2025, in the nation’s capital, half the All Blacks just gave up. And yes, the apparent thunder of a jet engine booming across the nation is not the sound of a 747 doing a fly past over the Cake Tin or Westpac or Sky Stadium or whatever the hell the ground is called now, it’s the sound of Colin Meads turning in his grave at 1000 revolutions a minute.""Brodie McAllister was walking. Quinn Tupaea was walking. Ardie Savea was walking. Actually walking might be a bit of an exaggeration. They looked like they had given up. And a darkness descended on the land."
"But with the exception of Tamaiti Williams, who was beyond noble in his striving, none of the subs had much idea. Was Fabian Holland playing lock or blindside. Who knew? Certainly not Holland who shot up out of the defensive line to allow RG Snyman, not exactly the fastest human on the planet, to run 20 metres to score untouched.
"And what about Ruben Love, an odd selection given how much cover the starting team had at 10 and 15?
So, Love comes on and has to play on the wing. A fish out of water, Love went down the gurgler, ball watching when South Africa cross kicked to his wing. Pieter Steph du Toit plucked the ball from the air and put in Kwagga Smith for a try."
its shows what a mess we are in if I am starting to agree with some of what Mark Idiot Reason is writing.https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360830885/mark-reason-ugly-truths-about-all-blacks-woes
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An interesting article by a idiot Mark Reason in stuff,But it is scary when I agree with a lot of what he said.
some quotes
"But on September 13, 2025, in the nation’s capital, half the All Blacks just gave up. And yes, the apparent thunder of a jet engine booming across the nation is not the sound of a 747 doing a fly past over the Cake Tin or Westpac or Sky Stadium or whatever the hell the ground is called now, it’s the sound of Colin Meads turning in his grave at 1000 revolutions a minute.""Brodie McAllister was walking. Quinn Tupaea was walking. Ardie Savea was walking. Actually walking might be a bit of an exaggeration. They looked like they had given up. And a darkness descended on the land."
"But with the exception of Tamaiti Williams, who was beyond noble in his striving, none of the subs had much idea. Was Fabian Holland playing lock or blindside. Who knew? Certainly not Holland who shot up out of the defensive line to allow RG Snyman, not exactly the fastest human on the planet, to run 20 metres to score untouched.
"And what about Ruben Love, an odd selection given how much cover the starting team had at 10 and 15?
So, Love comes on and has to play on the wing. A fish out of water, Love went down the gurgler, ball watching when South Africa cross kicked to his wing. Pieter Steph du Toit plucked the ball from the air and put in Kwagga Smith for a try."
its shows what a mess we are in if I am starting to agree with some of what Mark Idiot Reason is writing.https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360830885/mark-reason-ugly-truths-about-all-blacks-woes
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
An interesting article by a idiot Mark Reason in stuff,But it is scary when I agree with a lot of what he said.
some quotes
"But on September 13, 2025, in the nation’s capital, half the All Blacks just gave up. And yes, the apparent thunder of a jet engine booming across the nation is not the sound of a 747 doing a fly past over the Cake Tin or Westpac or Sky Stadium or whatever the hell the ground is called now, it’s the sound of Colin Meads turning in his grave at 1000 revolutions a minute.""Brodie McAllister was walking. Quinn Tupaea was walking. Ardie Savea was walking. Actually walking might be a bit of an exaggeration. They looked like they had given up. And a darkness descended on the land."
"But with the exception of Tamaiti Williams, who was beyond noble in his striving, none of the subs had much idea. Was Fabian Holland playing lock or blindside. Who knew? Certainly not Holland who shot up out of the defensive line to allow RG Snyman, not exactly the fastest human on the planet, to run 20 metres to score untouched.
"And what about Ruben Love, an odd selection given how much cover the starting team had at 10 and 15?
So, Love comes on and has to play on the wing. A fish out of water, Love went down the gurgler, ball watching when South Africa cross kicked to his wing. Pieter Steph du Toit plucked the ball from the air and put in Kwagga Smith for a try."
its shows what a mess we are in if I am starting to agree with some of what Mark Idiot Reason is writing.https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360830885/mark-reason-ugly-truths-about-all-blacks-woes
Mark Reason should not be allowed to mention Colin Mead's name, let alone tell us what his opinion would be.
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
An interesting article by a idiot Mark Reason in stuff,But it is scary when I agree with a lot of what he said.
some quotes
"But on September 13, 2025, in the nation’s capital, half the All Blacks just gave up. And yes, the apparent thunder of a jet engine booming across the nation is not the sound of a 747 doing a fly past over the Cake Tin or Westpac or Sky Stadium or whatever the hell the ground is called now, it’s the sound of Colin Meads turning in his grave at 1000 revolutions a minute.""Brodie McAllister was walking. Quinn Tupaea was walking. Ardie Savea was walking. Actually walking might be a bit of an exaggeration. They looked like they had given up. And a darkness descended on the land."
"But with the exception of Tamaiti Williams, who was beyond noble in his striving, none of the subs had much idea. Was Fabian Holland playing lock or blindside. Who knew? Certainly not Holland who shot up out of the defensive line to allow RG Snyman, not exactly the fastest human on the planet, to run 20 metres to score untouched.
"And what about Ruben Love, an odd selection given how much cover the starting team had at 10 and 15?
So, Love comes on and has to play on the wing. A fish out of water, Love went down the gurgler, ball watching when South Africa cross kicked to his wing. Pieter Steph du Toit plucked the ball from the air and put in Kwagga Smith for a try."
its shows what a mess we are in if I am starting to agree with some of what Mark Idiot Reason is writing.https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360830885/mark-reason-ugly-truths-about-all-blacks-woes
Mark Reason should not be allowed to mention Colin Mead's name, let alone tell us what his opinion would be.
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
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@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
think Tamaiti was accredited with tied most missed tackles in that match..
Im sure Ardie would have had more misses accredited if he could keep up
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
think Tamaiti was accredited with tied most missed tackles in that match..
Im sure Ardie would have had more misses accredited if he could keep up
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
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@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
What about the I can't be fucked even trying to tackle stat, that would be higher for some not mentioned.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
What about the I can't be fucked even trying to tackle stat, that would be higher for some not mentioned.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
What about the I can't be fucked even trying to tackle stat, that would be higher for some not mentioned.
Yep there were quite a few of those in the last 10.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
What about the I can't be fucked even trying to tackle stat, that would be higher for some not mentioned.
Yep there were quite a few of those in the last 10.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
What about the I can't be fucked even trying to tackle stat, that would be higher for some not mentioned.
Yep there were quite a few of those in the last 10.
Was Scott still on then?
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There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
All of them are so used to loosing. The chiefs and blues players are largely mentally shot from constantly choking in the finals when the pressure is on. The highlanders players have zero self belief on how to close out a game. The unorganised chaos of the hurricanes doesn’t lend itself to international rugby.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Super rugby, since 2016/2017 has created a generation of soft players that have prayed on crappy Aussie teams and atrocious South African teams (I don’t care what people say about South Africa leaving super, most of those teams were guaranteed bonus points wins in the last few seasons) only to be thrashed by the one team that could play rugby at a semi-international level.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
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There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
All of them are so used to loosing. The chiefs and blues players are largely mentally shot from constantly choking in the finals when the pressure is on. The highlanders players have zero self belief on how to close out a game. The unorganised chaos of the hurricanes doesn’t lend itself to international rugby.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Super rugby, since 2016/2017 has created a generation of soft players that have prayed on crappy Aussie teams and atrocious South African teams (I don’t care what people say about South Africa leaving super, most of those teams were guaranteed bonus points wins in the last few seasons) only to be thrashed by the one team that could play rugby at a semi-international level.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Well the players certainly respected that legacy last weekend didn’t they! Don’t take the piss, they’re responsible for repeatedly failing to life up to and respect that legacy.
Taylor somewhat, Ardie absolutely not. Roigard is still junior so no, Jordie has had plenty of time and still doesn’t seem to inspire.
Don’t clutch at straws. The players are soft and have a loosing mindset.
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Interesting comments from Jake White on the current AB's issues.
Pretty much puts a lot of it down to NZR not supporting the AB coaching set-up, interfering with choice of assistants and having a blind-spot regarding the loss of coaching talent like Tony Brown.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Well the players certainly respected that legacy last weekend didn’t they! Don’t take the piss, they’re responsible for repeatedly failing to life up to and respect that legacy.
Taylor somewhat, Ardie absolutely not. Roigard is still junior so no, Jordie has had plenty of time and still doesn’t seem to inspire.
Don’t clutch at straws. The players are soft and have a loosing mindset.
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Well the players certainly respected that legacy last weekend didn’t they! Don’t take the piss, they’re responsible for repeatedly failing to life up to and respect that legacy.
Taylor somewhat, Ardie absolutely not. Roigard is still junior so no, Jordie has had plenty of time and still doesn’t seem to inspire.
Don’t clutch at straws. The players are soft and have a loosing mindset.
You're over egging the pudding a bit. By my count 10 of the 2011 RWC final starting XV had never won Super rugby when that final was played. And for two of the players who had won that was eight years earlier.
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@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
I saw one involvement from him in the last 10mins. That's an "achievement" for someone wearing 7 on his back against the old foe at home.
The sooner this skiving fluffybunny fucks off, the better off we'll be.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Well the players certainly respected that legacy last weekend didn’t they! Don’t take the piss, they’re responsible for repeatedly failing to life up to and respect that legacy.
Taylor somewhat, Ardie absolutely not. Roigard is still junior so no, Jordie has had plenty of time and still doesn’t seem to inspire.
Don’t clutch at straws. The players are soft and have a loosing mindset.
You're over egging the pudding a bit. By my count 10 of the 2011 RWC final starting XV had never won Super rugby when that final was played. And for two of the players who had won that was eight years earlier.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Well the players certainly respected that legacy last weekend didn’t they! Don’t take the piss, they’re responsible for repeatedly failing to life up to and respect that legacy.
Taylor somewhat, Ardie absolutely not. Roigard is still junior so no, Jordie has had plenty of time and still doesn’t seem to inspire.
Don’t clutch at straws. The players are soft and have a loosing mindset.
You're over egging the pudding a bit. By my count 10 of the 2011 RWC final starting XV had never won Super rugby when that final was played. And for two of the players who had won that was eight years earlier.
My point isn’t quite that, it’s that the environment from that period has players who knew how to win and could lead. It gave players direction. Now, the team doesn’t have that so it’s really the blind leading the blind
