All Blacks 2025
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
The team needs to start with a blank sheet of paper,, forget what’s known, ignore players’ past exploits and design a plan from scratch. Then pick the players who fit, as if assessing them for the first time. Every tactic, role and structure should be rebuilt around what could actually work, not what’s been tried so far. .
All well and good but we are two years into a World Cup cycle.
Yes, and they’re almost out of time. Would you rather they start from scratch now or continue with things as is?
@ShaquilleOatmeal Big changes are needed that's for sure.
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He came in to much fanfare. Now after such a poor performance this season it's time for Razor's crew to reap the whirlwind. I won't be satisfied with anything less than all of his assistants bar Ryan (I'd come close to firing him too after the way he (mis)managed Hoskins) getting shown the door
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
He came in to much fanfare. Now after such a poor performance this season it's time for Razor's crew to reap the whirlwind. I won't be satisfied with anything less than all of his assistants bar Ryan (I'd come close to firing him too after the way he (mis)managed Hoskins) getting shown the door
my mate had a totally speculative theory that they broke the bank for assistant coaches moving Leon on ... and that's why we get cut rate Tamati and are loathe to pay out existing assistants.
Like I said. musings only. But interesting conspiracy theory
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Two years is enough to rejig and quite frankly 1/3 is good enough as a foundation, the front row. We have an excellent 9 and probably have some decent backup options. DMac is good enough for a year or two as 10 as others are also trialled, and our wings are decent (Clarke, Narawa, Jordan, possibly Tangitau, jury out on Carter at the moment). Loosies and midfield are the concern. Actually we have some decent loosies just missing the combos, right selection and depth at 6 and 8.
So it isn't back to square 1, except for most of the tactics. But it might be good to have new tactics going into the next RWC cycle. -
A lot of players have gone backwards this year. e.g. Taueki'aho, Williams, Ratima, Sititi.
A lot of duds selected. Certain very good players ignored.
Poor coaching, biased selections, low intelligence setup.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
low intelligence setup.
That, for me, is the heart of the problem. It's comfortably the least cerebral, low IQ approach to the game I can remember from an All Blacks team. The culture reeks of complacency and smug, self-satisfaction.
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A lot of players have gone backwards this year. e.g. Taueki'aho, Williams, Ratima, Sititi.
A lot of duds selected. Certain very good players ignored.
Poor coaching, biased selections, low intelligence setup.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:
A lot of players have gone backwards this year. e.g. Taueki'aho, Williams, Ratima.
A lot of duds selected. Certain very good players ignored.
Poor coaching, biased selections, low intelligence setup.
Taueki'aho has been disappointing for more than just this year, and Ratima I think played above himself last year ( he petered out last year) and has probably reverted to type. I will concede Williams.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Our loose forwards remain a problem. Lakai put in a lot of effort but his actual impact was Blackadder like. He has a slightly lower workrate than Blackadder but is more accurate. He has so far not been a high impact player at test level.
Its pretty disappointing when a back in Proctor makes the most tackles in the team and the starting loose forwards rank 5th, 6th and 7th in tackles completed in what was a poor defensive effort overall.
According to the rugbypass stats Sititi made zero tackles despite being on the field for 26 minutes.
Tupaea, Lord, and Newell made more tackles than Savea and Lakai despite the former three being subbed for the final quarter while the two loosies played the entire game.
The loosies did not pull their weight in defence and this is not the first time this year. Have they been told to hang off tackles and look for turnovers or is that the way they play at Super level too? Whatever it is it's not working.
Parker made nine tackles and apparently two runs for no metres. That's Owen Franks level impact with ball in hand.
Can that really be considered playing both sides of the ball?
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Our loose forwards remain a problem. Lakai put in a lot of effort but his actual impact was Blackadder like. He has a slightly lower workrate than Blackadder but is more accurate. He has so far not been a high impact player at test level.
Its pretty disappointing when a back in Proctor makes the most tackles in the team and the starting loose forwards rank 5th, 6th and 7th in tackles completed in what was a poor defensive effort overall.
According to the rugbypass stats Sititi made zero tackles despite being on the field for 26 minutes.
Tupaea, Lord, and Newell made more tackles than Savea and Lakai despite the former three being subbed for the final quarter while the two loosies played the entire game.
The loosies did not pull their weight in defence and this is not the first time this year. Have they been told to hang off tackles and look for turnovers or is that the way they play at Super level too? Whatever it is it's not working.
Parker made nine tackles and apparently two runs for no metres. That's Owen Franks level impact with ball in hand.
Can that really be considered playing both sides of the ball?
Yes it turns out one can play both sides of the ball without actually affecting it.
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Time to cast the net ahead. How do you fix this? There is so much wrong with this team when you dig down into it. Who knows who will be coach, but here's my two sense worth.
Captain
Scott Barrett is a problem - but this is a problem which has plagued the All Blacks for the best part of eight years. Since give or take the end of 2018, for the best part of the period our captain has arguably only been in the team because he is well, the captain. Read was done by 2019, Cane struggled for consistent form from 2020-2023, and Scott Barrett has never really grasped it. This needs to be nipped in the bud. You could go Codie Taylor or Ardie Savea, but I just think this team is screaming out for something totally fresh. I'm not in the environment, but I'd be looking at co-captains. One issue we have, is there are few ABs right now who are guaranteed starters, who are also going to play most of the game. It could be a risk, but I'd go with Tupou Vaa'i and Jordie Barrett as co-captains.With a new captain instilled, we need to focus on a harder edge, so how does this effect the playing squad?
Front Row
Prop is one position where we are fine. All the props we have used this year outside of Lomax have been good, and Lomax is presumably just a form issue. Codie Taylor still has plenty of value as the starting hooker, but I think it is all to play for in behind him. Samisoni Taukei'aho is a good ball carrier, but his lineout and scrummaging work doesn't really seem to be up to scratch. Given Aumua can't stay fit, I think it is time to find out how good George Bell really is. Whether he was brought in prematurely is irrelevant now. FWIW, I would start him next week, but going forward, he is surely a big part of the All Blacks.Lock
Having lost the captaincy, I think the writing is on the rule for Scooter in this regime. Fabian Holland, Tupou Vaa'i and Patrick Tuipulotu have vastly outplayed him this year, and Josh Lord has arguably been the player of the Northern Tour. That's your four locks, and if you should need a fifth one if Vaa'i is required on the blindside, that is Sam DarryLoose Forward
We need to be a tougher in the loose I feel. I think Vaa'i offers that hard edge, so in the absence of a better option, I'd play him on the blindside. Lakai shifts to seven, with Sititi at eight. How to bulk out the squad? Ardie definitely still of value off the bench, so you need two more - a blindside and another number eight. I can't understand why Lio-Willie was sidelined - he come back in as the other number eight. We are on the lookout for a big fucker to do the hard yards at six. Flanders, Howden, Haig, Stodart shape as the ones to watch through Super for me. Parker has been a massive let down, and Kirifi probably never should have been picked in the first place. Jacobson can't stay fit so he is moved on tooHalfback
Cam Roigard has been the All Blacks best player this year, but at what stage does his fitness start to become a bit of a concern? Regardless, he is clearly number one. The current retards get what they deserve for backing Ratima and Christie. The other two next year should be whichever two of Pledger, Fakatava and Hotham have the best Super campaigns.First Five
Beauden Barrett has to go. Has to go. He is simply too inconsistent. I think in the absence of an obvious better option, for the moment you'd have to lean for McKenzie at 10, but also in a remoddelled ABs, you could opt for a different style of 10. I remain unconvinced in Jacomb's kicking abilities, and Reihana is a bit beige and I think would come unstuck when challenged with the pace of test rugby. One to follow across Super Rugby.The Rest of the Backline
Jordie Barrett has been instilled as captain, and remains an obvious starter - but where? Lets kill two birds with one stone. Will Jordan is the world's best winger, but he isn't a top-line playmaker. We also can't catch the high ball. Move Jordie back to 15. That leaves spaces at 12, 13 and on the left wing. I think Quinn Tupaea has plenty to offer with a consistent run, so he plays at 12.For mine, Proctor has been the letdown of the year, and is not worth persisting with.
Tavatavanawai and Fainga'anuku both lack the top line pace to be starting wingers, and lack the direction to be your starting centre, but they are the ideal players to have on the bench to provide punch.
ALB is done, and needs to be moved on. Ioane is also past his best, but is our best defensive centre currently available. I'd be looking at him and Brayden Ennor, who should have been brought back into the fold for this end of year tour.
As for the other winger spot, you are looking for a lethal left winger. Caleb Tangitau is that guy. He might have deficiencies, but there is no substitute for pure pace and power. Carter is workmanlike, but lacks X-Factor for me.
I like Narawa and Clarke as squad options.
There will obviously be guys through Super Rugby who put their hand up, and I think at hooker and in the midfield the chance is really there for someone to bolt through the door. I think they will take 43 players on the big tour, and here is a potential new-look squad. Some of the squad picks are wildly speculative, but you get the idea.
A potential new look All Blacks to tour South Africa next year
- Ethan de Groot
- Codie Taylor
- Fletcher Newell
- Josh Lord
- Fabian Holland
- Tupou Vaa'i (c)
- Peter Lakai
- Wallace Sititi
- Cam Roigard
- Damian McKenzie
- Caleb Tangitau
- Quinn Tupaea
- Brayden Ennor
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett (c)
- George Bell
- Tamaiti Williams
- Pasilio Tosi
- Patrick Tuipulotu
- Ardie Savea
- Dylan Pledger
- Ruben Love
- Timoci Tavatavanawai
Spare Props: Ollie Norris, Tyrel Lomax, Josh Fusitua, George Dyer
Spare Hookers: Samisoni Taukei'aho, Jack Taylor
Spare Locks: Sam Darry, Josh Beehre
Spare Loose Forwards: Will Stodart, Dalton Papalii, Christian Lio-Willie, Devan Flanders
Spare Halfbacks: Noah Hotham, Folau Fakatava
Spare First Five: Josh Jacomb
Spare Midfielders: Dallas McLeod, Rieko Ioane
Spare Outside Backs: Caleb Clarke, Emoni Narawa, Jacob Ratumaitavuki Kneepkens -
@Jet 09:30 in and Devlin drops another truth bomb. Two years in and who has Robertson coached to be a better player?
Maybe Fabian Holland, Tupou Vaii, Josh Lord and Peter Lakai but it's not a long list.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet 09:30 in and Devlin drops another truth bomb. Two years in and who has Robertson coached to be a better player?
Maybe Fabian Holland, Tupou Vaii, Josh Lord and Peter Lakai but it's not a long list.
Newell has improved around the field but it wasn't a high bar. Still, good on him (up to this game, at least).
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From a quality source:
- Ellison responsible for breakdown and defence. Has had no success in either area before other than crusaders
- Hansen is responsible for attack is hated by everyone other than Razor. He’s why MacDonald and Holland have quite. Love challenged him on attack strategy and has been black listed since
- real risk is that if Razor gets sacked, there won’t be a long list of applicants, hence they gave Jamie Joseph the All Blacks Marketing XV as a natural progression
- net net a total shit show!!
Take this for what it is
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From a quality source:
- Ellison responsible for breakdown and defence. Has had no success in either area before other than crusaders
- Hansen is responsible for attack is hated by everyone other than Razor. He’s why MacDonald and Holland have quite. Love challenged him on attack strategy and has been black listed since
- real risk is that if Razor gets sacked, there won’t be a long list of applicants, hence they gave Jamie Joseph the All Blacks Marketing XV as a natural progression
- net net a total shit show!!
Take this for what it is
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
From a quality source:
- Ellison responsible for breakdown and defence. Has had no success in either area before other than crusaders
- Hansen is responsible for attack is hated by everyone other than Razor. He’s why MacDonald and Holland have quite. Love challenged him on attack strategy and has been black listed since
- real risk is that if Razor gets sacked, there won’t be a long list of applicants, hence they gave Jamie Joseph the All Blacks Marketing XV as a natural progression
- net net a total shit show!!
Take this for what it is
If everyone hate Hansen but Razor then that is on Razor.
I can't see them getting rid of Razor and Ryan (Ryan: only deserves to go if it is true he kept all the Blues loosies out) but not sure what else is keeping Ellison's and Hansen's positions safe. Aren't there good replacements out there? -
If they fire Razor it will be another uncomfortable first. I don't expect it even though he deserves it
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
If they fire Razor it will be another uncomfortable first. I don't expect it even though he deserves it
Does anyone have inside goss on the KPIs they gave him?
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The question they have to ask is whether Razor can successfully turn this around. One issue he faces, is the need to move on a nucleus of the squad he has trusted for his first two years, including changing his captain.
From a man management point of view, to keep other players on side, it is way easier for a new coach to do that.
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I don't think changing a captain is a big deal if the captain isn't actually doing anything much and doesn't seem to interact with the team, his own team.
